To not leave a tip on principle

[MyNeatLimeCat]

Had a pub meal with a group, main courses (burgers, curries etc) cost £20. An 'optional' service charge is listed on the bill.

£2 or £4 isn't going to break the bank. But I just don't want to support the system, on principle.

I don't want to cause group drama either. What should I do in this situation?

We went to a pub for lunch.
Food was ordered using a QR code on the table.
On ordering a 12.5% "optional service charge" was added.
Before we'd even had any service, or food.
I removed it.
If the service had subsequently been good, I might have left some cash.
But all they did was plonk the food in front of us when it was ready, and then fail to clear any of it away until after we'd left.

Tips are fine.
Optional service charges on a bill after eating are fine.
Non optional service charges on a bill after eating are fine, as long as they're advertised.
I'm not paying service charges (optional or otherwise) on a bill before eating or receiving any service.

I hate the current approach of putting an automatic 12.5% on the bill. I got it recently for a cup of tea - a teabag in a pot that they'd added boiling water to. How is that any kind of 'service'?

Also, why is it a %basis? If I choose a £30 bottle of wine my tips is £3. If I choose a £40 bottle of wine my tip is £4. There's no difference in the 'service'. Find a clean glass, open the bottle pour.

And what about all the other minimum wage jobs. Carers (who sometimes have really shitty jobs) might get some chocolates at Christmas; people in call centres who get abuse on the phone; people working in a cold field picking sprouts for our Christmas dinner, or those that work in a meat factory preparing our turkeys; the people who clean your office at work or clean public toilets.

I have, and will continue to deduct the automatic charge. But I also add a cash tip where I can make the choice myself.

This is my issue too.
Went out for lunch in the summer, 2 of my friends had lobster at £45 each - l had a modest salad at just £20(!!) And yet the tip was based on what we had spent.

I have worked in all sorts of jobs and as much as l appreciated a tip, l would never in a million years expect one.

I don’t understand the culture of giving certain professions extra money on top of what we’ve already been charged but others not

Don't expect any helpful explanation, @DaisyChain505 ... there isn't one, beyond "It's just what people do" and "It's come to be expected"

And in a way that's fair enough since we all make our own choices; just don't try to impose them on others

I work somewhere that is more expensive than competitors, we don't have a service charge* but our prices are higher because they pay more for all the jobs than the average and we get things not typical in the industry as benefits.
There are comments about the prices being on the high side, and negativity around that (profiteering, greed etc etc).

We are also consistently reviewed well on service from staff. The staff are good, because we're paid and treated well for the jobs we do. No one ever puts those together and thinks the reason they pay a bit more is because the staff are getting paid more. It's not even a consideration. So for my experience, the whole 'they should just put the prices up and pay a decent wage to start with' doesn't really hold water. It doesn't and wouldn't work like that. People who don't want to pay more just don't want to, whatever the reason and despite what they say about having higher prices and paying staff more.

*And if you think that not having a service charge gets you out of the argument, you'd be wrong! I have had to intervene recently when some twunt was yelling at a young member of staff, demanding the service charge was removed on principle. No amount of 'we don't add one' worked, I was apparently, a liar.
He produced the bill and stabbed at the figures and either he needed his specs on or some help with reading comprehension, because what he was pointing at was the VAT broken down as a proportion of the total, as a VAT receipt, and included in the menu totals. The figures literally show you what proportion of the bill is VAT from each individual item, it's not an add on.
Nice conversation that was, especially as he got even shittier after that, presumably because he'd thoroughly embarrassed himself.

As I said in a pp, I'd rather be treated with a bit of common human decency instead of like a second class citizen than get a tip any day of the week - unfortunately people seem to find that impossible.

@HospitalitySux Exactly! The amount of circular conversations I've had with people about how it's great that the NMW is going up and workers being paid fairly for what they do and then in the next breath complaining about how their recent meal out was so expensive. Stating,"'But it's only a burger and a few fries, how can they charge so much" and then a blank stare when you explain about the bulk of the charge is wages.

We've also had the odd complaint about VAT being added to their bill and asking for it to be removed!

I really don't understand how minimum wage and meal prices keep increasing yet so does the tip/service charge %. I hate asking for a service charge to be removed but sometimes the amount added to the bill because you ordered expensive dishes does not justify the service received. I tend to not go back to places where I feel the service charge was excessive for the meal/service received but not sure the hospitality business care about repeat business anymore.

I really don't understand how minimum wage and meal prices keep increasing yet so does the tip/service charge %

If you mean it as in the expectation was once 12.5% and now it's 15% plus it's really quite simple, @Starzinsky ... if people are prepared to go on paying repeatedly they'll naturally think "a bit more would be even nicer" and so it goes

I used to work as a waitress (pre-option service charge). Tips were never given to staff, it all went to grabby manager. So I understand why you wouldn't want to do that.

Yep, I have seen this, 14..5 and 15 per cent. I think it might be because in London very average service is rewarded with 12.5 per cent.
I no longer visit coffee places that add a service charge and I have reduced some service charges down from 15 per cent to 12.5 and just explained it's too much, but it's awkward. If it was truly discretionary you could ask for a figure to be added to the bill.

You sound awful. I would cover your tip and never go out with you again. You are surely aware that unlike other jobs, server jobs are paid at a rate that assumes tips will also be part of the salary, and they accept the job under that assumption. It's been that way for decades, all over the world, and is not changing any time soon. What a battle to pick. Uggh.

Wow…minimum wage workers getting a bit extra in tips, what next! We bend over backwards to smile be polite give you your order cooked as requested, on clean plates in a clean establishment, but you can’t appreciate us by leaving a couple of quid?

The problem is it is a justification for paying crap wages to the staff. Instead of a service charge or a tip, if you want more money, put the prices up and pay the staff properly. Tips should be reserved for if the staff have gone above and beyond expectations, not for doing the fundamentals of what they are meant to be paid for.

If you have to 'bend over backwards' to do those very basic things then you're in the wrong job perhaps?

There are plenty of minimum wage workers - some doing really tough jobs - and they are not tipped; they should be, if anyone should. I'm sure you expect a tip from them also? Ugh.

My 18yo DD works in a small independent Greek restaurant. The workers rely on tips as the pay is minimum wage, which for teenagers isn’t a great amount, compared to the wages teenagers the same age get at McDonalds, to use your example.

Also the tips are shared out between every member of staff and they get a proportion depending on how many hours they worked that week.

Yes we have to bend over backwards when awkward bloody customers come in. Ugh to you too 😂

I'm the least awkward customer you could get, schtompy, I'm in, decisive with what I want and out again... and I never make a hint of mess.

I'm not sure about this tipping thing in general but I do it as it is what I'm used too, mostly if the food/service has been very good. I suspect the motivation behind it is that it incentivises the public facing staff to put maximal effort into satisfying the customer, which will benefit them with a generous tip and benefit the proprietor with a good review.

But it's not all over the world. In the UK there's a minimum wage. In the US tips from part of the minimum wage which is dramatically lower. In Germany, France, Italy there's a rounding up culture. We had rounding up too then in London restaurants it became 10 per cent and now up to 15 per cent. I tip and I think generally 10 per cent is reasonable but there's places I no longer go to because 15 per cent on an already expensive meal becomes unaffordable. We will get to a stage where people will only eat out on Birthdays and special occasions...

I’m not sure what your problem is. Just leave the tip.

If you want to leave one then do. Don't tell other people that they must.

Pleaseee don’t be that friend 🙄 I have two friends who are stingy and won’t tip, they’re not very well liked in the group…

Yes obviously I didn't mean it's exactly the same in every country in the world. But it exists in some form jnt he majority of places. The UK has its own version which isn't going anywhere.

You must be from the US. Please google 'minimum wage UK'.

Everything you said is wrong.