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AIBU?

Share your dilemmas and get honest opinions from other Mumsnetters.

To not leave a tip on principle

219 replies

MyNeatLimeCat · 18/12/2024 00:02

Had a pub meal with a group, main courses (burgers, curries etc) cost £20. An 'optional' service charge is listed on the bill.

£2 or £4 isn't going to break the bank. But I just don't want to support the system, on principle.

I don't want to cause group drama either. What should I do in this situation?

OP posts:
BobbyBiscuits · 18/12/2024 11:31

I hope none of your kids ever work in hospitality and have clients like you!

I always tip for sit down meals. Even if the food is rubbish and sent back, it's not the waiters fault the kitchen messed up. So yeah, I'm happy to pay it. And sometimes add an extra cash tip if they were really great.

Working in hospitality is very challenging, tiring work. Waiters deserve the tips in my view.

I'm not happy with a pub putting a tip on each round, when I'm simply being served drinks at the bar. For me I would accept that once, but not for multiple rounds. It's fine to ask, but in these cases I don't think added on.

If they serve me at the table with food then I'm definitely tipping though.

LilyJessie · 18/12/2024 11:32

These replies are from people tapping into their phone/ computers and not being said to your face. It is very different.
If someone didn't want to be your friend because you don't tip, then they're probably not your friend...

Personally, having been a waitress and paid minimum wage, the tips made all the difference to me, and little difference to the person tipping. Literally were a life line.
But if someone didn't give a tip, that was also their perogative. They still got served the same.

We aren't like the US in the UK for tipping. It's generally accepted that a tip is 10 percent and has been for a long time.

I think you should just do whatever you want and not seek validation from a bunch of strangers!

samarrange · 18/12/2024 11:35

I hate tipping as a principle. As PP have noted, lots of people do poorly-paid work with no tips. I bought a pair of shoes the other day and the assistant was so lovely. She spent 10 or 15 minutes helping me choose. Should she expect a tip?

That said, when I'm in a country that expects tips, I give them. I pay the optional service charge in the UK. If there isn't one, I add 10%. In the US I add 20%. Not because I want to but because I understand that it's part of the deal. Especially in the US, if you don't tip, the server doesn't eat. And in the UK I don't trust that all the staff in the place are getting the living wage. Restaurants are not very unionised places. But in Germany or Spain I don't feel the need to leave a tip at all, and most people don't, especially with card payments. In most of the EU it's very rare to see a payment terminal with an "Add a tip" button, and quite often the server has rung up the amount before you would even have had time to tell them to add X Euros.

What I don't do is vary the amount of the tip based on the "quality of the service". First, slow service often isn't the server's fault. Second, by withholding money because the server's idea of your nice experience doesn't match yours, you are in effect forcing them to perform "emotional labour" (look it up). As someone whose income does not depend on that in the slightest, I would not wish it on anyone's job description.

So tip or don't, but if you do, do it mentally in advance. If you see a main for £23.50, pretend it's £26.00, which it would be if the restaurant was honest about pricing. If you're in New York and you see a dish at $30, you already have to do this with the tax, so add the tip as well and pretend the price is $40. Don't arbitrarily decide to award yourself a discount based on whether the staff danced enough for you.

WeekendFreedom · 18/12/2024 12:23

Maray1967 · 18/12/2024 07:52

Because I’ve been a waitress and the pay was rubbish. The tips are significant for waiting staff. I also tip the hairdresser.

In a group situation I would want us to leave 10 per cent. If someone opts out, I’d chuck more in to cover it. But no one has ever not contributed. When we’ve taken junior staff out, the better paid staff pay more and subsidise them - but we always leave 10 per cent. I’m conscious that that is too low for our US cousins! I think we paid about 18 per cent the last June we were in the States.

We tend to tip if we’ve had great service and will hand it directly to the server. When I go to big chains I rarely tip, yes the servers might appreciate a tip but they haven’t always earned it tbh and they are on the same wage as many others who do different jobs and would never be considered for a tip.
I know everyone is different some like to tip others don’t

WeekendFreedom · 18/12/2024 12:24

SuperfluousHen · 18/12/2024 08:48

can I just ask - have you ever worked as a waitress?

Yes when I was 18 and then when I was 30-34… the last one was not a restaurant but I was still a waitress. Why?

NeedToChangeName · 18/12/2024 12:29

eightIsNewNine · 18/12/2024 01:57

The whole concept of tipping is weird and should be abolished.

I don't want to bribe people for better service, I just expect them to do their work.
I want to see the final price when I am ordering something.
I want everyone's earnings to be taxed and contribute to their pension, that's how we do the society.

The waiters aren't self employed, they are normal employees. Their wages should cone from their employer, not from charity donations of people who feel good about themselves throwing few extra coins on the stuff. So medieval and undignified for everyone involved.

Totally agree

I've had good service in my local Tesco, but wouldn't consider tipping the staff

My GP receptionist is friendly and helpful, but I wouldn't tip her either

Wages should be sufficient to live on. Employees shouldn't be dependent on random / unpredictable additional payments from customers who may or may not choose to donate

Barrenfieldoffucks · 18/12/2024 12:30

I tip if the service has been better than standard.

HospitalitySux · 18/12/2024 12:41

Tip if you want to, don't tip if you don't want to. It's quite simple really and down to the individual, if you're in a party with mixed feelings then work it out between yourselves what you're doing. But people really do need to stop using it as a stick to beat hospitality staff with, if there's a service charge they're highly unlikely to have had input into that happening. If one of your party wants to tip and you don't, that's not their fault either, they're not responsible for other people.

I don't care if people tip or not, I do get a share of tips left, and I'm grateful for a bit extra, and the tax man doesn't complain that they get a few extra quid either.

I'd be happy just being treated with basic respect that any human deserves over a tip any day. Sadly that's decreasing rapidly as service staff appear to be the whipping boy of society, at fault for being in a low paid job that other people are quite happy to utilise the service of to make their life a bit better. Hypocrisy.

Shoxfordian · 18/12/2024 12:45

Yep, I would cover your 2 or 4 pounds and that'd be it for going out for dinner with you op. Don't be so tight

Puzzledandpissedoff · 18/12/2024 12:53

MyNeatLimeCat · 18/12/2024 00:22

Additional tip?! Good grief, are we now expected to pay tips on top of a service charge?

I mean the 'optional' service charge.

Depends on the service establishment IME; some interchange tips / service / gratuities / "staff appreciation" and sometimes bandy around all four in the hope there'll be mugs who'll cough up again and again out of misplaced confusion (looking at you, some cruise lines)

Personally I'll pay once if the service is good, but with your particular place at least be grateful it was optional

LyingWitchInTheWardrobe · 18/12/2024 12:56

MyNeatLimeCat · 18/12/2024 11:13

Optional, with a healthy dose of guilt tripping and social pressure.

Ignore it. Your point about dish washers is well made. Everybody is earning NMW now and this isn't the US. I tip for exceptional service (and tip well), standard service I don't, it's already paid for. Companies can and do set their own charges for the product - that's what I'm paying for.

If I wanted to tip then I would have the service charge removed, I wouldn't do both. Hotel staff, for example, breakfast staff are not tipped yet they're running around the whole time. Go for dinner in the evening and they're languid by comparison yet expect tipping for the service they're paid to do.

The sooner that tipping in the UK drops off completely, the better. There are many other jobs - paying the same - that would be worthy (even more worthy?) of tipping but they are not.

Disregard the performative tippers and don't eat with them.

Precipice · 18/12/2024 13:04

Extiainoiapeial · 18/12/2024 07:44

Please don't ever holiday in the US!

We were once chased up the road when we didn't tip at a particular eating place. It was buffet, a girl showed us to our table and that was that. Everything else was help yourself, even drinks (we only had soft drinks). In America they expect 25%, and we really didn't think we should have to pay that for no service. So we left the restaurant and they chased us up the road shouting!

Please don't ever holiday in Japan!

A friend of a fiend got chased up the road to return the extra money he left behind.

More to the point: I see these kinds of comments a lot in tipping discussions and they're at best irrelevant. This is not the US. The underlying reason for the US being like that is wait staff not all getting minimum wage. That's wrong, as the customer shouldn't be expected to supply the wages directly. It is, however, irrelevant in the UK context.

Manara · 18/12/2024 13:09

MyNeatLimeCat · 18/12/2024 11:13

Optional, with a healthy dose of guilt tripping and social pressure.

The business is free to run its business how it likes within the law.

If you don't like, don't eat out.

No one will care.

LyingWitchInTheWardrobe · 18/12/2024 13:11

Manara · 18/12/2024 13:09

The business is free to run its business how it likes within the law.

If you don't like, don't eat out.

No one will care.

That ridiculous comment is trotted out so often.

People are free to eat out wherever they want - if they're prepared to pay the cost of the product they've ordered. End of.

Maddy70 · 18/12/2024 13:15

I dont agree with tipping at all. We dont tip teachers or nurses or the post office or the shop worker

I always ask for the 'service charge to be removed its bloody cheeky to add it on ... if my waiter has been above and beyond then I will leave a tip byt tbe orinciple is nonsense. Thankfully the country i live in doesnt do tipping

TheaBrandt · 18/12/2024 14:05

Urgh awful! Saying “principles” to conceal the fact you are a mean git.

Dd is waitressing currently you and the tips are shared between all the staff. She was taken aback by one young couple she had gone all out for they had excellent service gushed about the food and she even gave them locals tips as where to visit as they were tourists. At the end they explicitly asked for the service charge to be removed. She was quite baffled and hurt. Vast majority of customers are lovely and tip without question it’s a high end restaurant.

Manara · 18/12/2024 14:06

LyingWitchInTheWardrobe · 18/12/2024 13:11

That ridiculous comment is trotted out so often.

People are free to eat out wherever they want - if they're prepared to pay the cost of the product they've ordered. End of.

That’s literally what I said?

carrythecan · 18/12/2024 14:26

For those saying that restaurants should just charge an extra £2 on a £20 meal rather than a 10% service charge. It would actually cost you an extra £2.40 because VAT would be added to the £2. A service charge is a way of supplementing the low wages that hospitality tends to pay, without adding even more costs to the customer.

Most restaurants would love to charge more for meals and pay their staff better, but the industry will only stand so much as customers aren't prepared to pay what it actually should cost to eat out.

LyingWitchInTheWardrobe · 18/12/2024 14:31

Manara · 18/12/2024 14:06

That’s literally what I said?

Apologies if I misunderstood. I took your post as saying if you don't comply with service charge (which is optional) and tipping, then don't eat out.

If that's not what you said/meant, sorry.

MyNeatLimeCat · 18/12/2024 14:31

TheaBrandt · 18/12/2024 14:05

Urgh awful! Saying “principles” to conceal the fact you are a mean git.

Dd is waitressing currently you and the tips are shared between all the staff. She was taken aback by one young couple she had gone all out for they had excellent service gushed about the food and she even gave them locals tips as where to visit as they were tourists. At the end they explicitly asked for the service charge to be removed. She was quite baffled and hurt. Vast majority of customers are lovely and tip without question it’s a high end restaurant.

As I said before, if the price on the menu were 10% higher I would just pay it. Money is not the issue.

Presumably your daugher (and all the staff) still got paid for their time, whether cooking, taking orders, or suggesting tourist destinations? If so, what was the service charge for?

Why does your daughter think she is special? Many jobs are harder than hers, and come with no expectation of tipping.

OP posts:
LyingWitchInTheWardrobe · 18/12/2024 14:34

TheaBrandt · 18/12/2024 14:05

Urgh awful! Saying “principles” to conceal the fact you are a mean git.

Dd is waitressing currently you and the tips are shared between all the staff. She was taken aback by one young couple she had gone all out for they had excellent service gushed about the food and she even gave them locals tips as where to visit as they were tourists. At the end they explicitly asked for the service charge to be removed. She was quite baffled and hurt. Vast majority of customers are lovely and tip without question it’s a high end restaurant.

The service charge is nothing whatsoever to do with the waiting staff, it's a restaurant charge. I'm not understanding why your daughter was baffled or hurt by the request for removal of it?

I also don't understand why there is an expectation of tip for performing the duties expected (that isn't going 'all out') or for providing local information? That is what so many other workers do in so many other roles.

The more that waiting staff (and their parents) kick off about it, the less inclined I am to entertain it because it's just misplaced delusion of what the role actually is worth.

Jewel1968 · 18/12/2024 14:39

I only tip because of social pressure. I usually leave cash in the hope the waiter gets it.

But I hate the concept of tipping. I would much rather pay higher amounts for the food and for the staff to get a decent wage.

So I kinda agree with OP.

mitogoshigg · 18/12/2024 14:40

Places I go to regularly I know the tipping system, all share with all staff on shift which I think is far fairer than just wait staff in the U.K. as unlike in some countries there is no lower minimum wage for wait staff

SuperfluousHen · 18/12/2024 14:49

WeekendFreedom · 18/12/2024 12:24

Yes when I was 18 and then when I was 30-34… the last one was not a restaurant but I was still a waitress. Why?

Just wondering why you were querying why someone would leave a tip.

Whatsitreallylike · 18/12/2024 14:50

I just ask the staff if the service charge goes to them. If so then great, takes the hassle out of doing it myself. It not then I remove it and leave cash.