To not leave a tip on principle

[MyNeatLimeCat]

Had a pub meal with a group, main courses (burgers, curries etc) cost £20. An 'optional' service charge is listed on the bill.

£2 or £4 isn't going to break the bank. But I just don't want to support the system, on principle.

I don't want to cause group drama either. What should I do in this situation?

Can I just ask why you always leave a tip or would feel the need to cover a tip your friend didn’t leave?

It's early - I assumed this thread was going to be about you refusing to leave the council rubbish tip for some weird reason.

But by that logic you should also tip the checkout staff in the supermarket?

Because I’ve been a waitress and the pay was rubbish. The tips are significant for waiting staff. I also tip the hairdresser.

In a group situation I would want us to leave 10 per cent. If someone opts out, I’d chuck more in to cover it. But no one has ever not contributed. When we’ve taken junior staff out, the better paid staff pay more and subsidise them - but we always leave 10 per cent. I’m conscious that that is too low for our US cousins! I think we paid about 18 per cent the last June we were in the States.

What was the service like?

I'm a waitress. Hate customers like you and their 'principles' which rarely extend to good table manners.

Service charges by law are displayed before you order. So you knew your price.

Next time tell the staff before you did down that you don't intend to pay the service charge so we can prioritise those who do support us working 14 hour shifts without a break or sit down so customers get served well by giving a couple of quid.

I think this is more to do with you being tight/petty than having principles tbh

You could always tip everyone if you don’t like that only certain professions are tipped. Would that suit your principles?

As I said upthread, I pay the service charge but restaurant owners should pay their staff enough instead of putting extra expectations on the customer.

It's so weird to me that that's seen as acceptable, and you're an awful tightarse if you don't agree.

I worked as a waitress when I was young. I always tip. My brother has never been anything other than an academic. He never tips. I've never thought it made him look as good as he thinks it does

Support the system? How strange. It's customary to leave waitering staff a tip surely?

I think this is a sticking point for me. I’ve worked min wage jobs and have not been tipped as it’s not customary to tip in those roles, but in many cases I was serving someone and giving a personal dedicated service just the same as a waiter, but instead not getting a tip. Where do you draw the line? Shall we start tipping the supermarket checkout person? The Amazon delivery driver? The TA at school? Waiters get min wage in this country because it’s the law, so it’s not the same as in Italy of France where they rely on tips to supplement their income.

I have this situation regularly with one of my friends. She always asks for the service charge to be taken off ‘on principle’. It’s so embarrassing. I always leave a cash tip before we leave.

I have tried explaining to her that ‘taking a stand’ like this will not result in anything other than upsetting the staff.

Can anyone think of another example of a social convention that we perhaps in principle might disagree with, but generally go along with anyway because it’s not harming anyone?

I ask for the (optional) service charge to be removed! I prefer to decide how much to tip - not be told and it be added to my bill!

Don't want to come like America where the expected tip is now 20-30% your total bill!

It’s fine not to tip, this is not the US.

I dislike how some jobs expect tips and customers are made to feel tight and impolite if they don’t conform, yet other jobs that are equally as hard and low paid have no expectation of extra money for nothing.

Is the principle adding the service charge automatically rather than it being optional? I think this is to do with everyone paying contactless now and not carrying cash. Personally I prefer it that way - so much easier. If you don’t want to pay it that’s your call. But you will come across as tight fisted rather than principled I’m afraid (that’s what I would think if I’m honest).

Tipping is a weird one , it comes from a time when those jobs were so low paid that tipping propped the wage up. But now we have minimum wage it seems unfair that wait staff get tips but cleaners, carers , shop assistants etc do not.

If you're in the UK then you're absolutely spot on to not tip unless you absolutely want to. You don't need to staff are on minimum wage at the least. I know someone who works in a picking and packing job on minimum wage and no one tips them. It's weird anyway for staff to rely on the largesse of diners and absolutely shouldn't be normalised.

This isn't America where hospitality staff have to be obsequious to earn a crust.

Plus certain places take the tips and use them to make staff wages up to minimum wage anyway, I think the Ivy does this though not 100 per cent on that? So you're just enriching the owners.

I'm in a walking group. After a weekend walk we go to various nice cafes for lunch depending on where we are walking. There are usually at least 13 of us and we prebook a big table. Many of our members are single and some date each other. The tipping situation is very enlightening as to the character of different people( and , if I was single, would definitely put me off dating some of them). Last week we had a few new people and it was explained that everyone pays for what they have and a tip of 10% would be added to every purchase because we were a big group. We are all aged from 50 to 63. Everyone has a professional job, nice car, their own house and lots of very poncy walking gear. There is no one who can't afford to add £2.50 to their bill ( particularly those who benefit from the table being saved for us but then only order a black coffee and then leave. If we all did that they wouldn't save us a big table at Sunday lunchtime again) The faces some of them pulled at having to tip was very interesting.

I’m an academic now - but I think all my team have done retail, bar work etc in the past.

However, I do know the type - and suspect there are some in my wider faculty who would take this approach. Not in my team though, thank God.

I don’t like the system either- would much prefer the European approach of paying hospitality staff properly in the first place and setting prices accordingly. But as things are I always pay the service charge/tip- not doing so isn’t challenging the system, it’s just leaving people on low wages out of pocket.

To your point about washers up- most places divide the service charge between all staff, not just waiting staff.

I’m with you OP.

its dishonest of the hospitality industry to state a price and expect the customer to pay more on top. It’s an excuse to pay poor wages. I have worked as a waitress in a cafe and we very rarely were tipped. So it’s just certain industries and certain meal replacement eating out. Ethically it’s a mine field which I’m not navigating.

Eating out tends to be an awful experience anyway besides this increase in cost it’s generally over processed foods…and you want me to pay more?!

I suspect we consume so much American media that some people think the US tipping system is normal in the UK (it is not; we have a minimum wage).

This is it. I have no issue leaving a small tip, maybe more generously if the service has been particularly good, but there seems to be a growing expectation to tip a certain amount which I don’t like. I also hate it when you can sense the waiting staff check how much you have tipped (particularly when done by card machine) and almost feel the disappointment when it’s less than they expected. I don’t blame them; it’s society creating these expectations, not them, but it does sully the experience. We pay a lot of money to eat out so the awkwardness at the end just ruins it.

Using tips to top up to NMW is illegal and the Ivy doesn’t do it. What they used to do was divide the tronc in a way that gave more to chefs and senior waiting staff and less to junior waiting staff- not sure whether that’s still the case and it sounds unfair so I hope not.

If I were a member of your party I would pay extra to cover for your meanness.