Part 2 Sara Sharif case-update-horrifying

[ineedtowomanup]

Sara Sharif case - update - horrifying http://www.mumsnet.com/Talk/amiibeingunreasonable/5208854-sara-sharif-case-update-horrifying

Ahead of sentencing. Original thread above.

We're not going to agree on this. Unbelievable that you think Pakistani women are treated well by their male counterparts in the majority of their community. They're really not. True, there is male on female violence in all communities. But I'm saying the disregard for women in the Pakistani community is much more prevalent. Even down to their preference for male births. Sons are more sought after than daughters. And women walking a distance behind their husbands when out, not being allowed to choose partners- forced marriages. Not allowed to leave bad marriages or they are disowned by their communities. True, things are getting better than they used to be, but not yet there by a long margin I'm afraid.

The school were aware of previous unexplained injuries on Sarah before she was withdrawn for home schooling. This should have raised major red flags. And in these situations, home schooling should be denied.

I appreciate that Batool’s jinn comments are a small piece of the puzzle. There is totally a lack of other evidence into the adult’s state of mind due to their silence, lies and concealment of evidence. This allowed them to dilute the real narrative. Plus the other children in that household couldn’t necessarily act as witnesses either, due to age/health/fear.

This is why I felt the jinn/demon story rang true - the hearing firmly outlines the adults saw her as someone to be punished. The judge said her behaviour wasn’t bad, at most she would stand up for herself and be feisty. The judge also said the behaviour of the other kids ie twins with learning difficulties, would have been much worse. Urfan also used language like possessed and mentioned black magic in his defence blaming Batool, so maybe her abuse was linked to “beating the trouble out of her”, misguided discipline for being “evil” etc.

This could explain why they tortured her and treated her differently. I don’t think it’s about race but more the culture if they genuinely believe in ritualism, demons, superstitions and possessed people etc. Having said that, I don’t know how much weight the wider family or community put on these things.

I've read that, unfortunately, the step mother is housed in Low Newton, on the same wing as Lucy Letby and Joanna Dennehy. She has keys to her own lockable cell where she can go if she feels threatened. I'd hoped for somewhere with nowhere safe if she feels threatened.

To be honest I think the concept of inmate justice is unrealistic. The prison population is going to be full of perpetrators of similarly heinous crimes, I doubt people like that would take particular exception to what happened to Sara.

I watched all of the Judges sentencing remarks and it appears as though the mum lost custody as the kids reported her abusing them. So tbh I think morally she has to shoulder the blame too. She may not have killed Sara but had she taken care of her properly, she'd have never lost custody and Sara would most likely still be alive.

That poor child went straight from one abusive home to another. She must have felt like it was all "normal" because it's all she'd ever known, from her "family". The older brother was probably relieved he wasn't a victim any more and probably very scared to go against his father. How could they trust anyone to help them when they'd reported abuse once and ended up with someone worse.

@DancingLions it’s so awful. In addition to that, her oldest sibling was placed into permanent care due to abuse. This also led to baby Sara and her older brother temporarily in foster care then returned to parents.

School-aged Sara never did tell the school about ongoing abuse - I wonder if she was ever worried about going into care herself. Poor girl probably spent her life thinking she had nowhere to go for help.

It’s heartbreaking as it shows how sheltered she was. I just can’t help but think it takes seconds to contact emergency services who could have treated her injuries and saved some suffering but no one ever called. I just can’t imagine the pain she endured.

Yeah it is beyond tragic, it seems as if all of her parents failed her - just some were obviously a lot worse than others.

There are so many aspects in this that are shocking. I can’t believe the other kids are stuck in Pakistan.

I know the government is attempting to bring them back to England. But we know they would likely end up in the care system in the UK so it’s sad all around.

I know, I can only hope they get back to the UK asap and are placed in a healthy loving foster home and receive lots of therapy.

She called her step-mother a beautiful queen and wrote to her dad that she loved him. Sara was a small child, just seeking love. These were her main caregivers maybe she thought if she said she loved them they would love her. She saw the love bestowed on the other children.

These people were barbaric.

I can believe it - it's a huge burden for the state here to take them on. The Grandfather is seeing the money- the child benefit and probably also the disability allowance for I believe three of the kids have additional needs - the twins are autistic.

I don't imagine this government are fighting hard enough!

Well the council failed to rescue Sara just as much as her grandfather did, so it makes no sense to suppose they will end up better off in Surrey than in Pakistan. At least they are with relations there. The choices for kids whose parents go into prison are all suboptimal.

I find it strange that the government has just passed a right to die bill which will empower bad actors, while criminals are protected from the death penalty by our belief that - what, vengeance is a bad reason? Or that safeguarding and economy is morally repugnant. Death is a privilege, apparently. Strange times.

@ineedtowomanup certainly, you are right. They really did a number on her, where she was blaming herself for the abuse.

I’m sure grandfather in Pakistan is not getting any UK benefit money though - they would all have to reside in the UK. It’s likely any UK benefit claims are closed or suspended. He could be getting Pakistan’s version of state assistance though.

To be frank I was surprised to hear the UK government were trying to get the other kids back. And I’m surprised the Pakistani government are going to fight that. Either way the outcomes for the rest of the children seem poor. I suppose in Pakistan the siblings are likely to remain together, but I can’t imagine a British foster family being able to take all 5 kids on - especially with twins with learning difficulties. The siblings may be split.

What happened to Sara was so evil and deprived. I don’t think there are the words to describe just how evil those two are to have done this to a defenceless child. We can try and explain away the motives but ultimately Sara could have been saved if we had been less believing that her ‘father’ had reformed after attending a few courses and signing a statement to not beat the children.

I was listening to Radio 5 live this morning. And the MPs on the show were saying how heartbreaking the case is etc. They were all so passive and pathetic. Where is the anger? Where is the desire for change so another child does not die at the hands of their caregivers? How many more baby Peters, Arthur’s, Sara’s will there be? These MPs all talked of the ‘system’ which is part of the problem. No one takes a big step back to look at all the information and say nope. This isn’t safe for the child. Even if the parent is saying all the right things.

The problem is our politicians, judges and no doubt senior managers in child protection are from comfortable backgrounds where they struggle to visualise the chaotic, dangerous, violent homes that kids get brought into. Unfortunately we need to work on the basis of ‘could this child be killed if we leave them where they are’. Rather than believe it’s impossible to happen. The child deaths that have occurred since Covid should show us something is going badly wrong when there is not sufficient intervention in certain families.

We need zero tolerance. Smacking should be banned to send a statement that hitting children is not ok. Then any violence towards a child should result in removal of children. We need lawmakers to understand that kids tonight will be going home from school to homes where they might get a beating for looking at their step father wrong, or there’s no food for them, or not even a proper bed. These are not cases of poverty - they are neglect and abuse and no amount of extra money or time or courses will fix the fact that some people are not fit to raise children.

The judge also mentioned a video where Urfan is cuddling the new born baby and Sara is sitting next to him trying to touch the baby, and Urfan slaps her away.

Also a video where it shows her mobility was affected due to the constant beatings but she was still smiling to the camera.

The thought of what she suffered is unimaginable.

@SovietSpy having worked in the system, I would say that the majority are very, very aware of how bad things can be for families. Also bear in mind that to be a senior manager in child protection you have to have been a social worker, going out to those homes and seeing those families. Those in the legal system are a step removed but still meeting with the parents they are representing on a daily basis.

The issue is not that people think that homes are safe, it's that families who are struggling are not properly supported, and the evidence shows that for the majority of children, the care system is worse. Statistically speaking, most children do better with family, even if they experience some abuse and neglect in that family, than they would being removed. Obviously not in the most extreme cases of abuse like Sara's. But the emotional abuse of the care system - separated from family, often from siblings, and typically repeated moves to different carers throughout childhood, often moved far from home, often teens being shunted into children's homes with a revolving door of staff - that is the experience of the majority. The idea that children get moved once to a happy foster home and stay there until they're adults is false. I've worked in the system for twenty years, with hundreds of children in care, and can only think of a handful where that has been their experience.

Lucy Letby is not at Low Newton and all cells have lockable doors

some videos about Sara popped up on my social media, which shows unreleased photos of her with her parents, siblings plus a photo of Batool’s sister. It’s scary how normal they all look, you just never know what is happening behind a photo.

I’m surprised at all the trial evidence posted online too. Sharif actually sounds upset although economical with truth in call recordings. But Batool is so calm and collected - how?

Looking back, god knows what they were thinking with their media video statement from Pakistan. It’s like they thought they were celebrities!

NC as I'm going to say something outing.

Social services should automatically investigate a safeguarding concern about a family where children have already been taken into care. Sara had been in care as a tot, one sibling was permanently removed - any concerns about a family with that past should have been properly investigated, not NFAd without a visit. Sara could have and should have been saved.

I've adopted, my DCs birth father is a volatile dangerous man. I do letterbox letters which social care don't pass on to him, as they say they don't know where he is - a very cursory glance at Facebook tell you he's in the same town he's always lived in, his mum lives in the same house my children were removed from. It's not hard to know where he is, at all. During covid his girlfriend died in an accident, it was on the local news, and she had 2 DC that lived with him. Social care had no oversight on what went on in that house until the DCs mum died, they had no idea he was living with children, they apparently couldn't find him! I know they're under resourced but those DC should have been on the radar, they weren't. It's not good enough, children are at risk because social care are overwhelmed with pure emergencies and aren't on top of anything even slightly under the radar. There will be more Saras

I know you mean well but the problem is when these horrific cases happen, change is suggested but then everyone emerges to protect ‘the system’ and claim it can’t be changed.

i can’t tell from your remarks whether you think it all works dandy or not. But there will be an enquiry and then nothing will change because the people at the top don’t actually think there are any problems or they are remunerated for saving money rather than saving children.

Rachael Wardell is the Director of children’s services in Surrey. She’s never worked as a social worker. She has a degree from Oxford. I’m sure she’s very clever but does she truly get on the shop floor to see the worst of these people who are neglecting and abusing their kids? Doubt it. She’s under pressure to giver her OBE back. As yet again the system rewards those who preside over failure.

@SovietSpy I'm baffled how you could read my posts and say you're not sure if you think I believe the system works?

Also, directors of children's services aren't the ones making the day to day decisions. It's an important, but very different, role. It's unusual that it is one of the few roles that don't require a social work qualification, though the majority do. Those that don't have to have someone advising them who is social work qualified, in order to do the post.

I've made multiple posts in these threads that in order for the system to be improved, as a society we need to value and prioritise safeguarding, which means paying for it. The system needs to be much bigger than it is currently in order to do the job that is required. The support systems - family support services, services for children with disabilities, children's mental health services - need to be properly supported, as without them, child protection workers can't work effectively.

Everyone in the system knows what they'd want to be doing - being curious, spending time with children, having the headspace to really unpick what is going on, effectively sharing information with other professionals - but the system doesn't allow for it. And telling people what they should be doing, as though that will magically allow it to happen, is meaningless and demoralising.

Completely wrong. They are on a sex offender wing . They are not in the segregation unit or isolated. They have been in the same location since they went in prison on remand