AIBU? Boyfriends Christmas Night out

[Alessoutingname]

TW

I’ve been with my boyfriend over a year. Both mid thirties, own homes (although he seems incapable of spending any time away from me). Mostly happy relationship apart from the fact he’s very codependent.

I don’t know if I’m feeling this way because I’m at the point where I very much need a couple of nights and days away from him or if he’s massively overstepped a personal boundary. I fear the latter.

Backstory, I don’t really like being around drunk people (I do socially drink but rarely). Grew up with an alcoholic father so I’m always on edge and generally feel unsafe around drunk men in particular as a result of my childhood.

Boyfriend comes back to mine at around 1.30am, this is fine. He’s very drunk. Gets into bed and starts the usual drunk nonsense nonstop talking and repeating himself. Mildly annoying but ok. He says something along the lines of “you best not try have s€x with me tonight,” I reply jokingly “I doubt you’d be able to get it up anyway.” For context, I was in bed with just my pants on because I was warm.

The next part is what has shocked me. He proceeded to take his boxer shorts off and intimately touch me. I told him to stop and put his boxers back on. He didn’t. He kept going. He bit my shoulder and I had to be quite forceful and state “I am not consenting to this” to make it ABUNDANTLY clear to him. Not something I ever thought I’d have to nor wanted to do.

He only stopped because I made an excuse to go downstairs. When I returned to bed he had his boxers back on but was touching me again. I ended up shouting at him.

In the end I’ve felt so uncomfortable I’ve came to my guest bedroom.

I’m upset with myself for a number of reasons. Mainly that I didn’t ring him a taxi to send him home after he made me feel so uncomfortable but I’d worry he would come to some type of harm due to his level of intoxication. I’m upset that another person who I trusted has made me feel violated in my own home, in my own bed and that I’ve felt I need to sleep in another room while he snores loudly in my lovely king sized bed!

I do love him and I’m possibly overthinking/reacting but right now I don’t ever want to be around him when he’s drunk ever again. I feel like he’s royally f#cked up and irreparably ruined our relationship.

How do I approach this in the morning? I will certainly be addressing it with him and do not want to be around him. He will be unfit to drive for a considerable time. Currently I’m thinking that I’ll be leaving him home and telling him to arrange a lift to collect his car and belongings from my home.

AIBU to feel this way?

I understand that I’m completely in the minority here, but I’d have been irritated - and that’s it.

I don’t think it’s that unusual for one person to be in the mood and try to gently persuade the other in a long term and trusted relationship.

Of course no means no, and it’s not ok to carry on badgering someone. And I accept that the OP’s partner/ex-partner wasn’t gently cajoling - but it sounds like a serious case of being not able to properly judge the situation due to being overly drunk. Especially given the OP’s comment about not being able to get it up. That could easily sound like a flirtatious challenge to someone who’s pissed.

OP describes him as kind and sweet in every other way. She also said he was visibly upset and profusely apologetic this morning.

It feels like a non-issue to me. But we all have our boundaries and if OP feels this way about what happened, that’s fair enough.

It also feels as if there are multiple things going on here. Not giving OP enough personal space and crowding her is a completely different issue - and I think this is a far bigger problem than pestering for sex when drunk.

I wouldn’t throw away a great relationship for someone who once badgered me for sex when drunk. But it doesn’t actually sound like a great relationship, no matter how kind and sweet OP says he is. There’s a clear mismatch in how much time they want to spend together and he seems insistent on invading her personal space. He also seems very insecure, hence the whole “you need me” narrative.

Don't you think there has been enough rape apology and derailing on this thread already? Your opinions aren't helpful to the OP or anyone so please consider keeping them to yourself.

The biting.

He actually bit you and not a bite you would ever be happy to receive?

Fucks sake, he should be in a zoo.

I would not be able to resist keeping an eye on how his life pans out. I'm an old bugger and I turned a blind eye to a lot of shite when I was younger but a subtle watch of the people involved has me realising it wasn't me. It was repeated.

Gentle persuasion= actually biting someone in your world?

I wasn’t rude or insulting to the OP and I explicitly said we all have our own personal boundaries.

This is AIBU and I don’t think it’s unreasonable to discuss different views here. That’s literally what this area is for.

The point I was making is that for me, what happened in bed is almost a side issue because the relationship sounds awful. The man being kind and sweet has masked the fact he’s trampling all over her personal space and pushing his insecurities onto her. For me, that’s a far bigger red flag but it’s something that’s easily overlooked because it’s so insidious.

I actually agree that OP is better off out of the relationship, but for different reasons.

HE BIT HER!!
And that's before you get to him ignoring her shouting I DO NOT CONSENT TO THIS.
And also before you consider that he spent all his time at hers despite her repeatedly asking him for some time to herself (and that was when he was on best behaviour).
Yes, very irritating...

Maybe my post wasn’t clear - I said that he clearly wasn’t gently cajoling. The point I was making is that he pushed normal gentle persuasion too far because of poor judgement through being drunk.

As I said, I’d have been bloody irritated but that’s it.

But I think there are massive red flags in other areas so I think OP is well rid of him.

@SpidersAreShitheads

Mate, he fucking bit her.

On top of the multiple times he ignored her saying no (including literally saying 'I am not consenting to this') and continued sexually touching her.

Do you believe that a man continuing to sexually touch someone when they have said 'no, I do not consent' is sexual assault? How about if the 'no, I do not consent' is repeated multiple times and they carry on? Is it sexual assault then?

Genuine question - how many times does a woman have to say 'no, I do not consent' for you to consider it sexual assault if the man continues to sexually touch her?

I think spending time at hers is a completely different issue.

I already acknowledged that it’s not a great relationship because he’s trampling over her personal space. I think that’s a huge red flag and OP is well out of the relationship for those reasons alone.

I'm really sorry this happened to you OP.

My DH and I have very different ideas about alcohol levels and acceptable behaviours. My reasons are very similar to yours. He enjoys a drink both at home and socially. Now that we're 10 years in with all the baggage that goes with a marriage and children etc it's not reason enough to leave the relationship, we're happy in a multitude of ways. But if I could go back I'd think long and hard before allowing myself to get this deep with a man who can drink a bottle of wine and think nothing of it. We're totally incompatible in how we party and relax and it's caused a lot of tension. Probably the thing we've disagreed on most in our relationship and the thing we both compromise on the most. I know he reins himself in a lot because of my opinions, and yet in my opinion it often still isn't enough. It's uncomfortable, and that's without anything like what you've experienced. That would be something I couldn't come back from. He presumably knows your past and feelings on it, so even making allowances for the effects of alcohol (something the law doesn't do interestingly) this feels like something he should have been acutely aware of and adjusting his behaviour accordingly. Turning up at your house in that state was disrespectful enough without the non consensual touching.

@SpidersAreShitheads It’s not really a different issue, to be honest. She had repeatedly tried to get him to stop coming over to hers and spend more time at his place, which he ignored. Now he’s gone a step further and ignored her when she said no to sex/touching. He is showing complete disregard for her boundaries and he is progressing. It’s not a simple lack of judgement, it’s him chancing himself to see how far he can go with her accepting it. There is no excuse for it. It is no wonder there are so many shitty men in the world when women have such low expectations and excuse their behaviour.

Being drunk is not an excuse. He bit her. How much interpersonal violence are you willing to excuse as just boys will be drunken boys?

Exactly. The two things are totally linked. It's boundary pushing, and if the OP hadn't made him leave, it would have got a lot worse.

Op, it won't feel like it right now, but he could have wasted another year or two of your life just flying under your red flag radar - you'll be glad he let the mask slip now. You're going to be fine, better in fact, without him

It feels like we are going backwards. Rape apologists used to resort to "well she didn't actually say no". Now, apparently, it's "she didn't say no enough times". They've been asked several times on this thread how many noes are required to constitute non-consent, but won't say.

Its really something about the way alcohol and toxic male sexuality are aligned in western culture. Men are always to be horny and men are permitted to be drunk and foolish and out of control after any kind of celebration. So saying no and censoring or criticizing either behavior is seen as definitionally unreasonable. What killjoys women are! seems to be the theme.

They've been asked several times on this thread how many noes are required to constitute non-consent, but won't say.

Yes I asked both @possibleusername and @SpidersAreShitheads this but neither replied despite responding to many other posts and questions.

Here is my question again, super clearly:

Genuine question - how many times does a woman have to say 'no, I do not consent' for you to consider it sexual assault if the man continues to sexually touch her?

And apparently if he bites you during the incident in which he continues to sexually assault you after you've repeatedly told him no, he was probably just being more 'passionate' than you expected, according to a previous poster.

It's so deeply unsettling reading women speak about sexual assault this way. More alarming than hearing men spout the same shit.

Well done for asking him to leave

I get you are sad as he didn't try and apologise more /change your mind

Maybe he is giving you Space

Def ask for key back

Glad you have security at home

Based on someone local who recently got 5 years in prison having continued with sexual acts under the influence of alcohol after the other person said no you only have to say it once.

He’s the kindest sweetest guy who sexually assaulted you. His co dependency is the least of your problems.

Don’t get me wrong, this isn’t the first time he’s tried to instigate something and I’ve said no for all those victim blamers.

Likewise there’s been times I’ve been in the mood and he’s said no and I respected it.

It is however the first time I’ve said no and he kept going.

I’m now focusing on what complete junk food I’m going to have to get me over this heart break, I’m open to suggestions!

He kept going. He bit my shoulder and I had to be quite forceful and state “I am not consenting to this” to make it ABUNDANTLY clear to him....

I told him to stop and put his boxers back on. He didn’t. He kept going.

Oh let's not forget that according to another poster, the above amounts to that he "wasn’t gently cajoling" and it just "sounds like a serious case of being not able to properly judge the situation due to being overly drunk." Please let's call it what it is and stop excusing these men. No wonder there are repeatedly women on here questioning whether they have been abused or assaulted when even other women dismiss their experiences.

Fucking hell. I’m glad I didn’t read all those posts. Fucking outrageous.

Chip shop chips, Pizza Hut takeaway, wine , chocolate.

Or if you're feeling more exotic - picky bits from M&S.

Well done on getting rid!!!