To be annoyed at being told to be considerate of disabled people

[DefendingPan]

This sign was in the disabled toilet in a restaurant (which is also the only baby change in the restaurant).

What’s the point of this sign? What might parents be doing that they will stop after reading this?

It is about being reasonable. Waiting while someone does a quick nappy change fine. Waiting ages while someone breastfeeds or plays with their baby while changing its nappy is not okay. That is the one place someone disabled can use the toilet. They should not have to wait ages to use it.

The sign is inside the toilet; it can’t be about queuing

Then it's about making sure that you don't spend longer than needed, as a disabled person might be waiting outside. Surely that's obvious?

It’s a straightforward sign but I doubt it will have any impact. The type of people who are inconsiderate are not going to change their behaviour by reading this sign.

That IS NOT what I said. I said that I was very much aware of invisible disabilities, but I am also very much aware of the fact that changing out of your winter clothes is not a disability. Able bodied people regularly abuse the systems in place to support disabled people, and if you spend any time on threads here you must know that. "I have a right to park in the disabled space even though I am not disabled - AIBU". Obviously not, say most of the answers, you go ahead. But try parking in a parent and toddler place and you'll be crucified.

I would suggest that you re-read my comment before accusing me of saying things that I DID NOT SAY.

This is actually shocking. It is unbelievable how rude and selfish humans can be.

@MerryMaker yeah, I agree. I just wouldn't think someone would be lingering in there any longer than strictly necessary!

It is common. As is being talked down to as if you are a young child, or servers asking anyone with you questions about what you would like.

The point is that baby changing facilities shouldn’t be combined with disabled facilities. They should be separate. Disabled people shouldn’t have to wait for a baby to be changed before what for some, will be the only facility they can use.

As a wheelchair user I can tell you it’s not unusual for me to be out with friends, and instead of people addressing me directly, they will assume I’m with a carer and talk over me to them.

I mean, it's not hard, is it?

It's saying don't take fucking ages over changing your kid, because for some reason we think lumping disabled facilities with the baby change is a good idea.

I used to take an elderly friend shopping and many times at the till the assistant would converse with me and I’d have to say my friend is buying these goods not me.

Before disability I used to think that equality laws and so on had made improvements in the way people with disabilities were treated. And in some ways they have. But what I now feel is that some of the progress made is actually begrudged by some able-bodied people. We see it on here all the time. Despite evidence showing that people with disabilities are disproportionately in the poorest segments of society, we all apparently live on benefits, have six foreign holidays a year and own mansions. Pushing someone in a wheelchair out of the way is the thin edge of the wedge. I regularly have the door slammed in my face by people who hold it for the next (able-bodied) person but then see that I am slow and have both hands using sticks or other walking aids, so they let it go to slam in my face! And I mean that it's rare a week goes by without that happening.

I can see why small businesses do this but it would be good if they made clear that disabled people have priority.

There’s a current thread on MN where the OP thinks that pregnancy should be treated as disabilty !!

I guess the bottom line is that you could change a baby elsewhere, if you really had to, but many disabled folk cannot just use another loo.

I'd get a Sharpie and write underneath it 'then give us separate baby changing facilities (with a toilet) then'. Hate Tesco who seem to think parents with tiny babies still in a pram don't need to pee. Don't know if all Sainsbury's are like the one where I used to live, but the baby changing unit was massive and had a toilet in it.

Sorry but you kind of did say it. You made it very clear that you think the majority of people claiming to have invisible disabilities are faking it.

Lots of people with visible disabilities also have invisible disabilities. It is not a clear dividing line.

Yes to all of this. It is so depressing!

Still doesn’t entitle you to spend overly long in the disabled toilet , or, as I have witnessed many times, parents leaving the table down and all sorts of crap left on it, and things moved around the room. A bit of consideration costs nothing. Baby changing doesn’t trump disability.

It absolutely is. If you have a visible disability people tend to be more considerate. If you have something like a stoma or a condition that isn’t obvious people feel as though they’re entitled to ask you what’s wrong. That’s totally unacceptable in any circumstance.

Are you calling me a liar? I made no such comment. I made it clear that I am very much aware of invisible disabilities, as are able-bodied people who fake it in order to "benefit" from the situation. Are you telling me that this does not happen. Because I have read people on here bragging about it, and I have seen people doing it. So I "kind of" didn't say it, and I have now made it clear TWICE that I didn't say any such thing. If you are intent upon taking offence at things that are not said, then you must spend a lot of time being offended.

Which board is that on?

You're seriously trying to claim that parents are treated like second-class citizens??

I do understand why its a shared facility in some places, old buildings where adding another cubicle just isn't possible.

But many places - supermarkets, shopping malls, massive stores like Ikea... there is no fucking excuse.

They could add an extra wide stall into the mens and the ladies, they could provide a family bathroom (some Ikeas do, not all though, the newer ones do). They do not bother, because there is no comeback for not bothering.

Disabled people have no effective way of complaining.

Parents happily use the facilities and they are the bigger voice here and could complain but they don't because its only an issue for them (and not much of one) for a couple of years per child.

I've had to go to the loo with the fucking door open to the public, because the accessible toilet wasn't and i couldn't get close enough in my chair, get on the loo and shut the door - not just the once either, multiple times in various places (all relatively new and large buildings too).

On several of those occasions, the only reason I could not get my chair in was due to the fixings for baby change stations/nappy bins!

Yes, I complained, but supplying the needs of parents is bigger business than meeting the legal requirements of disabled people, and as I say, there are no real penalties for offering substandard facilities.