to not understand MNers against neurodiversity

[UkiUki]

Inspired by another thread on here today but it’s an ongoing trend.

I’ve noticed that most, if not all of the time, when a poster suggests that a behaviour may be caused by ND, other posters jump on them and seem enraged that ‘everything is explained away with neurodiversity these days’.

There has been a lot of progress in understanding these conditions which has naturally contributed to an increase in people getting diagnosed. It is especially increasing in females as, per most medical issues, the parameters for diagnoses were created around male behaviour.

As someone currently in the latter part of the long and stressful diagnosis process, my motivation to suggest ND when I recognise certain traits in situations described is that my heart goes out to those who could flourish with a little extra understanding of how their brains work, especially children. I believe I would be a different person now if I’d had the support I needed growing up, instead of just believing I was lazy, clumsy and weird.

I feel a lot of irritation and sometimes outright anger from some posters, and the suggestion that people are using ND as an excuse somehow.

Aibu to not understand where this annoyance comes from?

Im sorry to hear you have struggled. May I ask what reasonable adjustments you have found helpful? Is this in work life?

I recently got diagnosed with autism. I’m mid forties. The damage caused by going through life without support has been lasting and profound. I was labelled awkward, rude, naughty, and lazy as a child. Then repeatedly punished. Whilst I have intact IQ and ability to talk I do struggle with working memory, executive function, motor skills reading social cues and a whole array of cognitive impairments that are not realities to reasoning or talking, but still cause problems in engaging with school, work and other people. In fact I dropped out of university as I had liver failure due to a suicide attempt and it nearly killed me. I have not coped with jobs and have spent my life unemployed with severe mental health problems.
Today I would be one of those kids in mainstream schools with a diagnosis and support, wickedly stealing care from those who can’t talk. Or perhaps it is the government who are wicked cutting services for ALL levels of autism?

This is really important, Perzival. 50% of people currently diagnosed with autism are unable to manage without full-time care or hold down a paying job. Their far higher needs have been "cancelled" by autism advocacy that focuses purely on making wider society more comfortable for ND people with fewer needs.

At an autism conference last year (I think), the autistic advocates were furious at a speaker who talked about the silent half, demanding apologies for having acknowledged their existence! Several stormed out, then spend days trashing the speaker on TwitX. The ND people with high needs were not there, of course, to defend their corner.

I really hope the initiative described in your screenshot will go some way to redress this imbalance.

Autism is not a social disability

Autism spectrum disorder (ASD) is a developmental disability caused by differences in the brain. People with ASD often have problems with social communication and interaction, and restricted or repetitive behaviors or interests.

Some people manage to mask successfully and don’t have social issues. Masking shouldn’t be pushed however as it can cause big MH difficulties.

And as for “ If more of you grasped this basic point, you wouldn't keep pissing people off by trying to label arseholes as autistic and/or telling NT people not to communicate the way they do. Thank god some of you do get it!”

So patronising and rude,I for one am so not going to be lectured by somebody who doesn’t even have ND.

yes but you are either diagnosed as autistic or youre not

im well aware there isn't a blood test for it.
which is why there is a criteria for it.
you either meet it or you dont

meets some criteria does not mean 'a little bit autistic' it means meets some of the criteria, a lot of people meet 'some of the criteria'

you are either autistic or youre not.
you either have a condition or you dont.

there is a criteria for a condition. if you meet it you have it
if you dont meet it you dont have it
there is no such things as ' a little bit autistic'

so many people can hold traits of autism but it does not mean they are autistic

its like saying a sprain is 'a little bit of a broken ankle' just because they share some traits.

Thank you for demonstrating my point so effectively, @ChristmasGrump5.

FYI, "ASD is defined by a deficit in social communication along with the presence of repetitive and/or restricted interests and/or behaviors."

Masking shouldn't be pushed, I agree. For one thing, more than half of people with autism can't do it at all. Many of the rest are so bad at it, they may as well not waste the mental energy.

This means, however, that people with ASDs who won't or can't mask must accept they're unable to participate fully in most activities requiring social skills.

It's directly equivalent to my mobility impairments, which leave me unable to join in walking activities or visit interesting old churches with lots of steps.

It's shit, but there it is. If you have a disability, you have to figure out how to muddle along with it - some concessions can be made by the wider world, but it's not all going to change to suit any one person's wish; nor should it.

But the physically disabled have rights to ensure they can access education, buildings,meetings, hospitals,work….

Autistic people should just stay at home. 😱

But the physically disabled have rights to ensure they can access education, buildings, meetings, hospitals, work….

So do the neurologically disabled

So if a person meets some of the criteria do you consider them to be autistic or not?

not.

I meet some of the criteria but im not autistic.
I meet some of the criteria for bipolar but im not.
I meet some of the criteria for schizophrenia but im not.

meeting some of the criteria does not mean you have the condition.

Saying autistic people should not participate in activities requiring social skills is just vile. People need to accommodate the needs of this disabillity. It doesn’t harm others to accept that lack of eye contact and rather blunt and literal speech is nothing personal and can’t be helped, for example. I think this is where a diagnosis can help all levels of autism, as people can then realise these behaviours are not rudeness. That we are not ignoring hints we just don’t understand them and need a direct, literal request. If we seem to not care about feelings it is because we can’t read them and need to be told.
This is not the same as being abusive to others though. This is a social communication problem, and once there is understanding on both sides, does not need to involve anyone getting hurt or upset. A very different thing to using a diagnosis as an excuse. I wouldn’t dream of being deliberately rude to someone and try to avoid it. Can I read social cues though? The answer would be no, I need adjusted communication and people around me understanding I struggle with communication. I have level 2 autism.

Actually, I have it! I'm not ND as far as I know, but have some processing issues. It is disabling. Like OP, I learned not to beat myself up about it, though without any sort of diagnosis.

From your reaction, I'm guessing you and I wouldn't be happy if we ever tried to meet up for a drink 😂

No one is saying autistic people can not take part in social activities. Most do.

I’ve seen enough posts from that person to know they severely dislike ND people and have misconstrued viewpoints about what ND people ‘are like’.

Well, generally improving understanding of ND is great. At work I'm receiving emails from ND members of staff asking me to do things differently in my communications with them. But what it really amounts to is me doing quite a lot of their job for them. I've had 3 such requests in the last 6 months, it's becoming a big problem. If I can't resolve it I will ask to move teams. A lot of threads on mumsnet seem to mimic my work problems, so while the threads may be argumentative and shouty, there may be an underlying issue here....

People need to accommodate the needs of this disabillity.

What, all the time??

At work, sure. If I'm at a social occasion, I'm there to enjoy interacting with people as NT people do. I don't "need" to accommodate those with social limitations: I might feel like doing so, I might not. I'm only there for my amusement, not theirs.

Same if you and I worked together - you'd have to make allowances for my crappy mobility. If I fancy joining you on your weekend hike, though, you don't "need" to make sure the route's flat and walk at half speed for my sake. If you want to, that's nice but if you don't, then I can't go.

@Garlicwest I agree. And I suspect the ND people saying this have zero understanding of the many ways they exclude people with other disabilities all the time.

I don’t expect anyone to accommodate my autism, whether at home, with friends or at work.
A bit of awareness is great, but nobody should feel they have to change things to make life easier for me.

I'm there to enjoy interacting with people as NT people do

NT people all interact with each other in exactly the same way, regardless of introversion / extroversion, level of alcohol imbibed, general personality, background and culture, etc…? That’s a bit of a generalisation, isn’t it?

I‘m another one who is 40 and late diagnosed with ADHD. It has ruined my life, but silently. No one would ever have thought I had ADHD from the outside, as once I was about 8 or so I could mask super effectively. I have three children and the two boys display a lot of the behaviours I did, but they are bright and comply at school. They are known in the family as being a bit of a nightmare / emotional / high energy / stubborn etc etc but if I mention neurodiversity no one will entertain the idea because they can function. It pisses me off and I’m terrified they are feeling like I did at that age (scared all the time, mostly, and overwhelmed) but are just forced to get on with it.

What I would like to say to people who think neurodiversity is just bad behaviour is, are you sure?? Because if you’ve got it wrong, and don’t work to help the child understand themselves or get medicated, then you may be subjecting them to an adulthood like mine which is basically a shit show. Do you want your child:

• experiencing panic attacks for decades
• unable to hold down a job
• struggljng to be a good parent because they are so overwhelmed by their children
• not understanding why they find everyday tasks other people do such a struggle
• having zero self confidence and so putting up with unhealthy relationships

??

Just because many more people are being diagnosed now, it doesn’t cheapen the diagnosis. We just now have an understanding of it. 200 years ago barely anyone was diagnosed with cancer; do you think cancer is people shifting blame for their health?? It’s the same thing. My middle daughter has been brought up the same as her brothers with the same parenting techniques, the same level of discipline and boundaries etc etc. Her behaviour is excellent. My son’s behaviours are not.

Much easier (and cheaper) to mum-blame though

I’m not being entitled, I have support needs. The definition of level two autism is needing significant support in social communication. Workplaces and services need to make reasonable adjustments by law. I don’t expect anyone to be my friend or mix with me if they don’t want to, nor should I.

If you are functioning without support at work good for you. A lot of people can’t work without support.