People who think weight loss injections are cheating

[AuntieDote]

I've seen this viewpoint over multiple threads recently, and I'm just really curious to understand it a bit more because it makes no sense to me whatsoever.

What do you think people using the injections are cheating at?

As in - what's the competition and who are they gaining an unfair advantage over? What do you think the rules of being allowed to lose weight are/ should be?

Is it more important to you that overweight people/ those struggling with obesity lose the weight, become healthier, reduce the burden on the NHS, stop taking up more than their allocated amount of space in the world, or just stop doing whatever it is that upsets people so much about the existence of fat people -- or is it more important that they struggle and suffer whilst doing so?

Or would you secretly prefer them to remain fat so you can feel superior?

Is it that you feel you've worked really hard to either lose weight, keep it off or never put it on in the first place, so nobody else should be allowed to achieve this without the same amount of struggle?

What do you think the weight loss injections actually do, and do you not recognise that those on them are also doing all the usual things people who are trying to lose weight e.g. modify their eating, exercise etc? Does it not count that they're doing these things because it's made easier in some ways by the drug?

What types of weight loss support or tools are not 'cheating'? e.g. I used hypnosis once and it worked for a bit, to the point that I felt pretty much the same way I do with the injections i.e. reduction in food noise and compulsion to snack etc. It didn't last anything like as long, but it worked for a time - was that cheating?

Would it still be cheating if they weren't as effective as they are?

FWIW, I really couldn't care less if people think I'm cheating - who cares? Who does it impact only me and my bank balance? If someone said here, press this button and you'll be a healthy BMI overnight and stay there forever I'd press it with both hands and not give a shit about how anyone felt about it.

But it's just the logic of it that baffles me - I've never seen it as a competition and have never felt like getting to or being a healthy weight only counts if it's done in a certain way - I suppose I'm not much interested in what size anyone else is or what they do to get that way, so I can't imagine for a second ever thinking another person was 'cheating' - only ever being happy for them if they're happy and hopefully healthy too.

In obese populations the amount of GLP1 is dimished, its about half of what is is in a non obese population. Now we can have the chicken or the egg conversation. It is unclear if the lack of GLP1 causes obesity or if obesity causes the dimished expression of GLP1
Why are talking obese Vs slim people as if they are different people.

I can assure you that I could very easily become obese in 3 months time. Then what? It will be because my amount of GLP1 will have suddenly multiplied.

No. It would be because like a number of my overweight friends, I would tell myself that life is for living and not always live in frustration and so I would say yes to the mince pie, and probably finish the pack because they are so delicious. I would have a three course meal every time I go out because deserts are so nice. I would double the portions of my meals because it double the pleasure.

It's very easy to assume that only obese people, or those who do become obese do so because of a sudden reduction of hormones, ie. It's not their fault because they can't control it.

I 100% respect that many factors come into why people are obese. I would never say that it's easy to break the circle. I do think that for some obese people, that drug is a godsend. Just don't assume that you deserve it more than slim people because controlling your food cravings is a battle many different people of different shapes, background, culture, mental state, genetics, face every day.

i think they are saying that because they have suffered and still managed to be thin, they are better than others (the fatties). And they need things to stay that way. If the fatties don’t stay fat what evidence will they have of their superiority ? 😉

No. It would be because like a number of my overweight friends, I would tell myself that life is for living

Oh yes!!! Of course, silly me, this is what causes obesity- a belief in the moto that “life is for the living!” Perhaps we need some new motto cards to cure the obesity epidemic ?

Why the fuck is that so hard to comprehend?
What's so hard to understand that many slim people experience exactly the same but make different choices?

Yesterday, whilst shopping, I had the choice between buying some gorgeous Bonne Maman full fat yogurts. I tried them once at a friend....OMG, they are delicious. My brain, stomach, heart were telling me to buy it. Instead I picked the boring fat free, sugar free blend yogurt.

Is it so hard to understand that we face that same dilemma every day but just make the choice that keeps us slim rather than opting for temptation of the gorgeous tasting alternative.

"Why are talking obese Vs slim people as if they are different people."

Because that's how science and clinical trials work. You take your disease ( and yes in the medical field obesity is a disease) and you compare it to your non disease counterpart as your control. That's kind of just how science works.

What's so hard to understand that many slim people experience exactly the same but make different choices?

would you like a medal? Or just for other people to stay fat? I think the former is reasonable - here have one: 🥇🎖️. You can’t really demand the latter at the expense of other people’s health and wellbeing .

i think they are saying that because they have suffered and still managed to be thin, they are better than others (the fatties). And they need things to stay that way. If the fatties don’t stay fat what evidence will they have that they have of their superiority ?
What a condescending judgemental comment.

I really don't consider myself 'better' than others because I am just about managing to remain on the normal weight range.

I just don't want to hear, yet again, as I have all my life, that I'm lucky to be slim, raising assumptions that I can't possibly know what it's like to think obsessively about food, to have to tell myself no when I so much want to say yes, when I count the calories daily because I know the line between healthy and fat is a very thin one.

Why is it so hard to understand that fat people's hormone deficiencies might affect every aspect of their lives, up to and including, willpower, cravings, and bingeing.
Look at the things that menopause does to women, and that hrt corrects. Do you hate old ladies for the change of life?

Because that's how science and clinical trials work. You take your disease ( and yes in the medical field obesity is a disease) and you compare it to your non disease counterpart as your control. That's kind of just how science works
That's why these research are not much reliable.

I could go from one group to the other in less than 6 months. Which one would I belong to?

would you like a medal? Or just for other people to stay fat? I think the former is reasonable - here have one: 🥇🎖️. You can’t really demand the latter at the expense of other people’s health and wellbeing
Here it is, typical passive aggression. I dont need or care about being praised. I don't do what I do for others but for myself.

I never ever judge or criticise an overweight person. They make the choices that works for them and I do the same.

Just stop judging me for the choice I make and assume that I just have it easy. Or should I let myself get obese to get sympathy?

Well if you have been obese and manage to lose the weight through calorie restriction the literature surrounding this would imply that you are likely to still have a deficit of GLP1.
Exercise does improve the production of it though does not rescue it back to the levels seen in populations that have never been obese.

As I said I think we should be checking for deficits in all populations and treating it as we do a thyroid deficit and that may happen in the future but we're not anywhere near there.

Edited to clarify the studies used were individuals who have never been obese or overweight.

What a condescending judgemental comment

you are calling my comment condescending and judgemental, when you have repeatedly insisted that the only difference between you and all fat people is you make better choices?

There are physiological/ chemical differences between bodies that cause differently people to experience hunger differently. These drugs and how they cause weight loss are literally proof of that.

Obesity and food addiction are extremely misunderstood conditions that likely require inventions from mental health and eating disorder specialists, not tablets, injections and surgery.

Just stop judging me for the choice I make

please tell me when or how on this thread you have been judged for your food choices?

I don't think people are being 'battered' just because they're not behind the jabs - it's coming from the frustration that many of those who are against them have formed their opinions on not very much science based, factual research. The tired old trote of eat less, move more, now widely debunked as a reliable catch all for weight loss (yes, it can work for some), the assumption that the medication somehow allows you to still eat a huge surplus of calories in junk food form and lose weight, the assumption that people are seeing this as a quick fix and that they've never tried to lose weight the more traditional way. There is a huge amount of information out there from renowned scientists who explain, in very clear terms both the benefits and associated risks of GLP1 medications.

So, if people don't want to be 'battered' by those defending their use of this medication then they should make sure they're better informed rather than reading sensationalist, inaccurate, daily mail type nonsense about Sharon Osborne and the like.

THEN we can have a debate with informed opinion on both sides.

🤦🏼‍♀️🙈

@Caffeineneedednow - reference to our earlier exchange

There’s no need for any of that now because there are injections that stop people feeling hungry. I’d never even heard of food noise until now.

Cool, how we funding this? Are you coming to my house to look after my kids 3 times a week while I go to the gym. Are you preparing all my meals from scratch?

Are you paying for my counseling?

I'm not saying mental health and diet are not interlinked I absolutely think they are. However the approach you have quoted has been around for a long time and doesn't work or at least has not been implanted on a population wide manner in an efficient manner.

Also obesity is an endocrine condition according to pretty much every scientist who examines it.

Look at the things that menopause does to women, and that hrt corrects. Do you hate old ladies for the change of life?

I hate nobody at all. Saying that I work hard to control my weight doesn't translate to 'and think everyone who doesn't is weak and lazy'. I have said no such thing at all. I get that many people think that but I don't. Yet the personal defensiveness leading to aggression here is flagrant.

I've been through the menopause and had my experience was hell, but I never assumed that those who coped better just had it easier. I looked at my own ways to deal with it, which sadly for me wasn't hrt, after years of trying different types.

I'll say it honestly. Do I wish I was eligible for the drug. Oh MIGHTY YES! Not having to have food on my mind all the time. Being able to get up and not immediately think about my breakfast. To be able to sit on the sofa in the evening without the constant distraction of so desperately wanting to grasp unhealthy food. This sound like heaven.

Do I resent those who won't have to fight the cravings. NO, I really really don't. Obesity is costing the NHS more than anything and tackling it is the higher public health priority.

Do I want to hear how great it is for people losing the weight because the craving for food is gone whilst I'm still battling with it every day? No, I really don't.

Yep I absolutely agree with your earlier comment of the issue being more that "us fatties are just weak willed " as opposed to seeing it as an endocrine failing.

please tell me when or how on this thread you have been judged for your food choices?
When you are making choosing to interpret what I wrote...
when you have repeatedly insisted that the only difference between you and all fat people is you make better choices?
...and it's not what I have written.

Yep I absolutely agree with your earlier comment of the issue being more that "us fatties are just weak willed " as opposed to seeing it as an endocrine failing

Can you explain the science then. Are you saying that only obese people suffer from this hormone imbalance? Do you think that some slim people can to, or it isn't possible because if they did, they would be obese?

I’m not judging you, honestly I’m really not. And I am not coming to your house to do that, no, because I am to busy looking after my own four kids and going to the gym myself. None of that I would have mentioned because your life and how you choose to spend your time is your prerogative but you specifically mentioned this.

I think counselling should be available on the NHS, but you’re correct it has a low success rate because it requires vigorous action by the sufferer and is incredibly difficult to achieve, therefore it’s far to expensive to offer.

I have suffered from an eating disorder - recovery is a long hard slog. I think, as a society, we tend to be quite empathetic to sufferers of anorexia and bulimia but not to those suffering from obesity and/or binge eating disorder, which just really isn’t fair.

If people would address their relationship with food their own old be much more success - this should also be available on the NHS. But frankly, people really struggle to do it, it’s a simple solution but not an easy one at all.

But why does it matter that some people choose to use a GLP1 agonist to fight this?

GLp1 is truncated in obesity so they about half the amount that a non obese population have.

Now if you put a population of rats into an obesogenic environment about a quater will become obese. Similar to the human population. So essentially we are not massively dissimilar to other mammals in this regard. Now comes the chicken or the egg question. Does the hormone imbalance cause the obesity or does the obesity cause the hormone imbalance? To be honest I can't find a clear answer to this in the literature.

It is possible that you have a hormone imbalance and are not obese. Like I said earlier we should be testing people in the same way we test for thyroid levels but I can't see it happening any time soon