People who think weight loss injections are cheating

[AuntieDote]

I've seen this viewpoint over multiple threads recently, and I'm just really curious to understand it a bit more because it makes no sense to me whatsoever.

What do you think people using the injections are cheating at?

As in - what's the competition and who are they gaining an unfair advantage over? What do you think the rules of being allowed to lose weight are/ should be?

Is it more important to you that overweight people/ those struggling with obesity lose the weight, become healthier, reduce the burden on the NHS, stop taking up more than their allocated amount of space in the world, or just stop doing whatever it is that upsets people so much about the existence of fat people -- or is it more important that they struggle and suffer whilst doing so?

Or would you secretly prefer them to remain fat so you can feel superior?

Is it that you feel you've worked really hard to either lose weight, keep it off or never put it on in the first place, so nobody else should be allowed to achieve this without the same amount of struggle?

What do you think the weight loss injections actually do, and do you not recognise that those on them are also doing all the usual things people who are trying to lose weight e.g. modify their eating, exercise etc? Does it not count that they're doing these things because it's made easier in some ways by the drug?

What types of weight loss support or tools are not 'cheating'? e.g. I used hypnosis once and it worked for a bit, to the point that I felt pretty much the same way I do with the injections i.e. reduction in food noise and compulsion to snack etc. It didn't last anything like as long, but it worked for a time - was that cheating?

Would it still be cheating if they weren't as effective as they are?

FWIW, I really couldn't care less if people think I'm cheating - who cares? Who does it impact only me and my bank balance? If someone said here, press this button and you'll be a healthy BMI overnight and stay there forever I'd press it with both hands and not give a shit about how anyone felt about it.

But it's just the logic of it that baffles me - I've never seen it as a competition and have never felt like getting to or being a healthy weight only counts if it's done in a certain way - I suppose I'm not much interested in what size anyone else is or what they do to get that way, so I can't imagine for a second ever thinking another person was 'cheating' - only ever being happy for them if they're happy and hopefully healthy too.

Obesity is an endocrine disorder- as demonstrated by the effectiveness of weight loss injections.

There was an interesting discussion earlier about how physical and mental health is in fact inseparable and all regulated by hormones, but to the extent to which we maintain a scientific distinction between physiological conditions (that require physiological interventions) and mental health disorders that require psychological interventions, most cases of obesity belong in the former and are much more effectively treated when recognised as such.

If you don't want to hear about it, then don't go onto the threads about it!

And for what it's worth, Mounjaro has done WAY more for my menopause symptoms than HRT did and I have come off HRT.

I admire this honesty and I think so do others. It isn’t the honesty that’s the issue, it is the very dismaying resentment, envy and bullshit reasons to justify it. The bingo card.

Here’s one for the ‘JuSt EaT lEsS aNd HaVe MoRe CoNtRoL’ brigade,

Eleven Years ago, I had to lose some weight I’d put on due to injury on top of getting back to fitness. I was boxing(not boxercise - actual boxing / training), riding horses, doing all the chores that go with, and I ran 5-10km 3 x a week. I followed dietary macros, and I got myself in the shape of my life. Tried and tested methods that had worked for me my whole sporting career.

Around the two year mark after losing the weight, I noticed my weight going up. Still electrically active, fit, and on top of my nutrition. Fiddled with my eating and exercise, still up it went. Coaches and nutritionists involved - still my weight kept going up. Slowly - but any attempt to lose weight was like pushing water uphill.

I ended up injuring myself again so boxing went out the window. However, I kept up with the horses and spin classes etc. but up and up my weight has gone until I ended up 8 stone heavier. Not diabetic, no obvious issue with my thyroid etc. etc. Months of My Fitness Pal, Apple Watch activity provided to the doctors to prove I wasn’t lying about my nutrition and exercise. Stumped. Tried again with a PT / nutritional coach last year who ended up accusing me of lying because my lack of weight loss wasn’t marrying up to my supposed ‘efforts.’ I got to the point I had to stop riding my horse because I was too big. I had to stop with my longest, and most reliable source of fresh air and exercise and I couldn’t lose weight despite genuine application good eating and exercise.

Then GLP1 came along. I genuinely thought ‘what have I got to lose?’ Spoke it through with my GP who was massively supportive - but advised me not to change anything drastic in my diet - aka maintain my current calories and macros along with exercise.

And lo and behold, the weight started coming off. My metabolism actually kicked back in. I didn’t ramp up the gym, I didn’t starve myself. I wasn’t benefitting from reduced hunger pangs. I put in the same amount of effort (and effort it was!!), but finally there’s a reward.

So for all those who just see it as a ‘cheat’ and a way to switch off hunger pangs to eat less - perhaps there’s an opportunity to be educated on the vast scope of people who are benefitting from it in different ways.

What happens when I hit my goal weight? Well I’ll trial coming off it, hoping that I have reset my metabolism to cope. And if it’s hasn’t, I’ll seek to use the lowest dose possible, either intermittently or long term to support the maintenance of the massive, positive change I made for my health.

Are some people obtaining it under false pretences and using it incorrectly to lose weight fast and easy? Yup. But that’s their business. Not yours.

Are there a whole raft of people for which this is a life changing medication and is impacting them positively and allowing them to build healthy habits and become less of a burden of health services? Abso bloody lutely. But you know what? That’s not your business either.

And in my case, is it fixing something that is biologically broken so that my effort and reward is comparable? Yup. And not your business either x

Story time over. Time for lunch.

I have been on the stuff for two days and already my eating habits have changed dramatically to fit those of a person with a much smaller appetite. I can see that some of the changes might be useful to future weight maintenance but others not so much.

For example to keep my weight static over the past few years (despite being hungry what seems like all the time) I have been avoiding breakfast to give a smaller eating window and filling up with lots of fruit and vegetables and soup in an only partially successful attempt to reduce the amount of carbs I consume. Eating more protein has (unlike for some people) never had much effect one way or another.

Now (after only two days) I have had to reintroduce breakfast so that I can eat more frequent, smaller meals. I am also eating when not particularly hungry and having small protein heavy portions to make sure I get sufficient nutrients. This is because I want to lose weight in a slow and sustainable way so that I don't lose muscle mass.

You know what annoys me most about the current, healthy eating advice. The idea that provided you eat plenty of fruit and veggies and protein and only eat when you are hungry you will be slim. I just don't think that applies to everyone.

But the weird thing is it did apply to me until I was about 35. Not sure if it was weight gain during pregnancy, or some kind of insulin resistance or something else that kicked it off.

Also I think a lot of overweight people develop psychological issues with food because they are constantly trying to struggle against a large appetite and it is that constant conflict between their conscious mind and natural instinct that causes the obsession with eating. I think in the past this wasn't so much of an issue as there just wasn't so much food around.

Is it a form of masochism then, why do you keep coming onto threads and avidly reading it then? No one forces you and if you don’t wish to hear about it stop proactively reading it.

how odd.

On another thread someone posted that they manage to stay slim by going to the gym for 2 hours four times a week, and walking 10,000 steps a day. Where do people finding the time to spend 8 hours a week at the gym? Let alone the £100+ for gym membership!

No, it’s not. It’s linked to endocrine disorders. Endocrine disorders are not new. Obesity, at this prevalence, is new and coincides with the dramatic way in which modern diet has changed over the last 50 years or so.

Can't we do both? Treat the symptoms whilst ascertaining the cause. To use your example of smoking indoors, people were still being treated for the symptoms/ill effects of smoking whilst we waited for legislation to limit the consumption and sale of tobacco. They were given nicotine patches to help them give up smoking. Weight loss injections could be seen in a similar light.

No, it’s not

yes it is. As evidenced by the effectiveness of weight loss injections. The environmental conditions remain the same, yet when you fix the endocrine issues, people are able to lose the weight.

Why are people posting pseudo science like they know what they are talking about, attempting to appear like experts whilst posting shite?

Yep. This itself is a function of privilege.

Can you explain which bit you think is pseudo science?

Well for one obesity is not an endrocine disorder. Do any of us need to go on?

I don't think they're cheating I just think it's unwise to use a drug when you don't know what the long term effects will be

I mean what happens when you reach target weight if you stop using it or are you on it for life

.

Sigh.

This is the beginning of my 4th week on Mounjaro. Apart from losing lbs, I have lost 1 inch off my waist and my shape is changing (I'm also now 'only' obese, rather than morbidly obese). This drug is definitely affecting my health for the better: when I have lost weight before, it has very grudgingly come off my waist and and stomach but now the imbalances in my body are being addressed, this has changed. I think it's important to remember that this isn't just an appetite suppressant drug, but it has many many beneficial interactions with your whole system. Where I live (abroad), it is prescribed by endocrinologists (no possibility of mail order, and very expensive!).

Obesity is a symptom. My Mounjaro is prescribed by an endocrinologist.

@Caffeineneedednow is a medical doctor , specifically a neuroendrocrinologist (I think that’s what you said earlier caffe- did I get that right?) and just wrote
“obesity is an endocrine condition according to pretty much every scientist who examines it.*

What are your credentials @ThatCoralShark ?

On it for life or the weight will go back on.

This is just not true. People lose weight because they are eating less because the injections are mimicking the ‘feeling full’ hormone. That’s not to say that everyone who uses them are suffering from an endocrine disorder. It’s true that some may produce less of this hormone and naturally hold more body fat, just like some people are naturally very skinny, this is highly unlikely to be so much that the individual would suffer with obesity, the very vast majority of the weight will be to do with diet and eating habits.

I could use them - I’d lose weight, I’m not suffering from obesity, I do however, suffer from an endocrine disorder.

The implication in this is really unpleasant

In any diet, 85 percent of people regain the weight. So far studies have shown on mounjaro people regain on average 14 percent of what was lost. Very low. In comparison to every other weight loss method. Where they usually regain it all and then some.

this is likely as they have time to retrain their eating habits whilst on it. Andto do so without the feelings of deprivation, those feelings of deprivation and hunger is what causes folks to regain when they stop dieting, as mounjaro you don’t feel them, you have a better chance. It also seems to do something with our chemistry,

jowever if you are unable to retrain, then you can stay on for life and remain slim . A low dose now costs. 20 odd quid a week, so very affordable for many, particularly when offset by the reduction in food and drink consumption costs.

so overall people who use wli are much better enabled to stay slim for life.

i will stay in a maintenance dose for life, primarily as i am insulin resistant, but if i wasnt I still would. As it enables me to make healthy choices, and stay slim. A total win.

I disagree; I think the best path is actually having both at the same time. I can't overstate how much more effectively I have been able to engage with mental health support for binge eating disorder while taking injections that stop me from binging. When you are in the thick of this behaviour, you are in a constant state of shame and panic and your brain - my brain anyway - isn't capable of engaging meaningfully in the steps needed for recovery. Therapy for me often exacerbated my symptoms; sessions would result in binges because the further I delved into what was going on for me, the more I needed my coping mechanisms. To find the space and the respite from the physical and mental suffering of binges feels like a miracle. And it means I can actually participate in therapy because I don't feel like I'm fighting fires all the time, and I'm not hamstrung by a perpetual feeling of failure. Years and years of trying to conquer this through mental health intervention was costly, painful and ineffective. Doing it alongside injections is working, for the first time. And because binging is not an option anymore - off the table, if you will - I have no choice but to develop other ways to deal with the triggers that would have prompted a binge before. It means I get the opportunity to practise that - like training wheels - and build up my ability to handle it. I think, like depression, it's something where some people will find respite through therapy alone, others through drugs alone and still others through a combination of the two.