People who think weight loss injections are cheating

[AuntieDote]

I've seen this viewpoint over multiple threads recently, and I'm just really curious to understand it a bit more because it makes no sense to me whatsoever.

What do you think people using the injections are cheating at?

As in - what's the competition and who are they gaining an unfair advantage over? What do you think the rules of being allowed to lose weight are/ should be?

Is it more important to you that overweight people/ those struggling with obesity lose the weight, become healthier, reduce the burden on the NHS, stop taking up more than their allocated amount of space in the world, or just stop doing whatever it is that upsets people so much about the existence of fat people -- or is it more important that they struggle and suffer whilst doing so?

Or would you secretly prefer them to remain fat so you can feel superior?

Is it that you feel you've worked really hard to either lose weight, keep it off or never put it on in the first place, so nobody else should be allowed to achieve this without the same amount of struggle?

What do you think the weight loss injections actually do, and do you not recognise that those on them are also doing all the usual things people who are trying to lose weight e.g. modify their eating, exercise etc? Does it not count that they're doing these things because it's made easier in some ways by the drug?

What types of weight loss support or tools are not 'cheating'? e.g. I used hypnosis once and it worked for a bit, to the point that I felt pretty much the same way I do with the injections i.e. reduction in food noise and compulsion to snack etc. It didn't last anything like as long, but it worked for a time - was that cheating?

Would it still be cheating if they weren't as effective as they are?

FWIW, I really couldn't care less if people think I'm cheating - who cares? Who does it impact only me and my bank balance? If someone said here, press this button and you'll be a healthy BMI overnight and stay there forever I'd press it with both hands and not give a shit about how anyone felt about it.

But it's just the logic of it that baffles me - I've never seen it as a competition and have never felt like getting to or being a healthy weight only counts if it's done in a certain way - I suppose I'm not much interested in what size anyone else is or what they do to get that way, so I can't imagine for a second ever thinking another person was 'cheating' - only ever being happy for them if they're happy and hopefully healthy too.

' tell me you don't understand science without telling me you don't understand science'

No there is no 'psychological reason.
The end.

Maybe not for you but for many there is.

@ChristmasfoodisOverrated the majority of people in the UK are at least overweight. Not everybody, but a really big majority.

I understand and agree to a certain extent, I think UPFs and convenience food companies have a lot to answer for, but for some people the underlying cause of their obesity could be due due to childhood trauma (children who were neglected and left to gi hungry often binge eat in later life)/something medical (thyroid issues, medication, e.g.). It really isn't as black and white as some people think it is.
My weight issues as a teenager stemmed from constant bullying by peers, dance teachers, and a family member. The only way I knew how to deal with my feelings was by eating. Thankfully I got therapy in my later teen years and have been at a healthy weight since (which I enjoy working to maintain through a healthy diet and regular exercise).

It's actually a lot easier once your bmi moves out of obesity tho... the longer you eat reduced calories the more your body becomes used to it. So it does give people more of a chance to reset. Yes the hunger may come back once you stop.. but if you've gone from 19 stone down to 10 fir example... your capacity to exercise will have massively increased, your energy levels will have gone up.. you have so much more of a fighting chance to keep the weight off. Amd some people may be on it for life.. but the health benefits for someone who was morbidly obese will massively outweigh the draw backs.
It should be offered along side counselling and lifestyle advice. And that should be ongoing once people come off it.

Something in your tone there is hopeful 😂

This thread and similar ones feel a bit like when your walking through town and somewhere in the distance, out of nowhere someone yells “you starting?!”. Basically spoiling for a fight with any innocent passers by, so you try to defend yourself, but they beat the shit out of you and gang up. You started this thread to ask for opinions as to why people are against them or wary of them or just plain old don’t like the concept of weight loss injections, then anyone who tries to give an opposing opinion gets leapt on and absolutely battered! Just use your injections and keep quiet if your already right about them!

I think she was being sarcastic in response to people saying 'just eat less calories simple!' Because it obviously isn't simple. Most people already know about calories and were already counting calories it's just they were not able to stick to it which is why these drugs are so helpful. Some people who have never been overweight just want to pretend there's no other issue apart from the fat people not counting calories.. and these drugs prove that there is. Because you still have to count calories on them to lose weight.

You sound really keen on people regaining there! Are you alright, love?

The jabs can be prescribed long term so obesity can be eradicated really. No weight regain.
I'm sure you're really happy for individuals and society in general.

🤣 no not hopeful. More a kind of predictable despondency.

@Searchingforthelight please state if you are a psychologist because my daughter is training to be one! Vast numbers of overweight people eat for comfort.
On this occasion I think you are talking nonsense. It's rude and hostile.

I am not rude for stating that people are overweight for the stated reasons, and that there isn't some big psychological reasoning / issue behind it

Read up on the latest thinking in obesity medicine

I am not a psychologist. I am a doctor, have been a medical consultant for many, many years.

i would be happy if I thought that the jabs would change mindset forever once you come off. I don’t think the majority of people should be getting prescribed them for life once they reach a healthy weight because ‘5 / 10 years ago they used to be obese’
I’ve been a variety of weights in my life and anything ‘fad’ which is what these jabs are IMO , just don’t work long term.
To be honest I’m half thinking they are going to make the health of the general population worse in the long term, not better.

This brilliant 🤣 and so true

and some people are scoring the whole bingo card all by themselves

Why are you trying to talk about psychology when you aren't a psychiatrist or a psychologist?? As though you know for sure... thats pretty ridiculous isn't it?
Of course there's psychological reasons behind morbid obesity
It's not just someone accidentally ate a few extra calories because they didn't know the M&S pasta salad contained so many...
It's years of compulsive over eating and it's often about addiction or about very ingrained comfort or sensory seeking.

Someone being mildly overweight may have no psychological cause yeah..
But obesity more often than not has complex psychological causes.. have you actually ever even spoken to many obese people about their experiences??

It’s always the same. Every single weight loss thread is always the same.
Doesn’t matter what you say, if you arnt 1000% behind the jabs or note any voice of caution at all, you literally get battered and insulted.
Just no reasonable discussion on the matter can be had.

More of the 'mindset'
As stated, a 'mindset' is not the cause of this condition
No, half the population will be much better off, not worse off, in the long term

Yes well, not you, nor anyone else in the planet can know that because it’s never been tried before for this purpose on this scale.
You hope half the population will be better off, you think they will. You do not know they will.

Not everyone has psychological reasons, we live in a era of cheap, easy, mobile, convenient food that is highly calorific but low satiety.

Its very very easy to put on weight, you dont need to be crying into a trifle every night, a few hundred calories extra a day will see you gain a stone a year. Easily unnoticable in our stretchy casual clothing that most of us wear nowadays.

The UK does not have higher numbers of people with psychological problems than other places in the world with lower numbers of obese. The correlation in countries where obesity is rising is the advancement of junk food/all day snacking/less home cooking. That is the common demoninator.

Talking about obesity generally
Not just morbid obesity which you are now mentioning
No there are no deep psychological issues that need resolving
Such patients need their hormones corrected, which tirzepatide does.

For me, without the injections I couldn't sustain the weight loss, and ultimately would stall, stop losing and eventually regain (plus more). I didn't go to the gym before because I hated it. I still don't love it, but I do love what it is doing to me. The weight loss gave me the motivation to have a go at excercise.
When I started them, I didn't start out with the mindset that "this was it, this time I'd lose all the weight and keep it off for good". But I thought let's give it a try - it could work for me. Within 12 hours I knew this was it. This was the thing that was going to change my mindset. First I concentrated on diet. Then when I slowed right down (as I've always done before), I made the lifestyle changes buoyed by the fact that I'd lost all this weight (4st by then). Bit by bit over this year I've made more and more sustainable changes to build healthy habits for life. The medication doesn't suppress the food noise any more (it hasn't since around month 8). But it does keep me fuller for longer. I still have to work at suppressing the desire to eat. Last week I went in to Manchester for Christmas shopping. Every other year I've been I've been to the markets and eaten the delicious foods. This year, despite wanting to - I didn't. I sat on a bench in the bloody freezing cold with my salad and protein Yogurt!

And yes. It’s mindset. That’s literally all it is. It’s reeducating and re training your brain on what to eat and what not to.
If the jabs do that and people can carry that on long term once the jabs have stopped then great!
That has yet to be seen.

For you! 😁 As you can see.... it is a well used book!

Just leaving this here. Education on nutrition is just one of the reasons cited for obesity - the rest are factors that cannot be addressed by the calories in/calories expended model.

It is NOT a choice, or as a result of poor food choices, but the consequence of a myriad of complex social and clinical issues. The medication addresses many of the clinical reason people gain wight/become obese. It is not ‘unreasonable’ or combative to push back when poster refuse to understand this and continue to imply or expressly state that people are fat because they lack self control, discipline or adequate dietary knowledge. Those posters are actually the ones who are uneducated on this issue, not those of us opting to use medical assistance to address our health concerns. And their refusal to acknowledge the evidence is insulting.

https://www.healthline.com/nutrition/9-reasons-obesity-is-not-a-choice

I should add we double the mushroom quantity. I love mushrooms! And an extra can of tomatoes.