People who think weight loss injections are cheating

[AuntieDote]

I've seen this viewpoint over multiple threads recently, and I'm just really curious to understand it a bit more because it makes no sense to me whatsoever.

What do you think people using the injections are cheating at?

As in - what's the competition and who are they gaining an unfair advantage over? What do you think the rules of being allowed to lose weight are/ should be?

Is it more important to you that overweight people/ those struggling with obesity lose the weight, become healthier, reduce the burden on the NHS, stop taking up more than their allocated amount of space in the world, or just stop doing whatever it is that upsets people so much about the existence of fat people -- or is it more important that they struggle and suffer whilst doing so?

Or would you secretly prefer them to remain fat so you can feel superior?

Is it that you feel you've worked really hard to either lose weight, keep it off or never put it on in the first place, so nobody else should be allowed to achieve this without the same amount of struggle?

What do you think the weight loss injections actually do, and do you not recognise that those on them are also doing all the usual things people who are trying to lose weight e.g. modify their eating, exercise etc? Does it not count that they're doing these things because it's made easier in some ways by the drug?

What types of weight loss support or tools are not 'cheating'? e.g. I used hypnosis once and it worked for a bit, to the point that I felt pretty much the same way I do with the injections i.e. reduction in food noise and compulsion to snack etc. It didn't last anything like as long, but it worked for a time - was that cheating?

Would it still be cheating if they weren't as effective as they are?

FWIW, I really couldn't care less if people think I'm cheating - who cares? Who does it impact only me and my bank balance? If someone said here, press this button and you'll be a healthy BMI overnight and stay there forever I'd press it with both hands and not give a shit about how anyone felt about it.

But it's just the logic of it that baffles me - I've never seen it as a competition and have never felt like getting to or being a healthy weight only counts if it's done in a certain way - I suppose I'm not much interested in what size anyone else is or what they do to get that way, so I can't imagine for a second ever thinking another person was 'cheating' - only ever being happy for them if they're happy and hopefully healthy too.

Err nope. You don't get to tell people when it is the end. It is subjective, and opinion. Do not shut down the opinion and voice of others. Anyhow, I'll let you off, because it may be psychological 😂

I agree. Me too

Dr@Searchingforthelight or to be correct as a consultant Miss.
You have studied many years ago and more is now known about trauma effecting eating disorders. Obesity can result in self harm.
Psychologists have a right to their expertise this by your own admission is not your field of expertise. Please review Dr Drucker in the Lancet 2021.
I had therapy, I stopped drinking and lost six stone. No one cared why I ate but CBT could be something to try before weightloss drugs are issued.

And for the record my daughter and I are both Oxford alumni. Not humming bell ringers.

Last post on this thread, then I am off for a steak n salad and might even have a small glass of champers at my only Xmas/girls night out. I’ll be wearing size 8 clothes and walking there to get some more steps in.

So, if taking the jabs is cheating, given that we know obesity is a complex and multifaceted disease caused by co-morbid illness, diabetes, injury, menopause, insulin resistance, as well as mental health issues in some people… are the following also cheating?

Paracetamol to reduce pain, or ibuprofen for pain and inflammation - we should just cope, yeah? Broken leg, postpartum stitches, the worst fucking migraine you’ve ever had? Suck it up, buttercup.

…IVF to help conceive or folic acid to prevent birth deformities? Nah, we should just suffer miscarriage after miscarriage, and risk our babies developing birth defects because, well, you’ve not earned motherhood otherwise, have you?

… should T2 diabetics not take medication ‘cos - well they’re probably fat and could fix it by diet and exercise, couldn’t they? It’s probably their own fault they’ve developed it.

…and should we offer heart, liver and kidney transplants where needed? Cos that’s probably due to shit diet, too, isn’t it and possibly even drinking too much alcohol, so yeah, they should suffer and get fit like the rest of us.

… blood thinners for the arterially afflicted? Nope. They likely smoked.

I could go on, but the point is every single one of these above scenarios is about ‘cheating’ your way back into a longer and healthier life. But it’s only obesity support that garners such vitriolic opprobrium. Because there is an underlying condemnatory, judgemental and often quite misogynist/ageist/ableist level of sheer unadulterated anti-fat bigotry.

So when I see threads like this, yes I will push back. And it’s actually totally reasonable to do so. Because PP who refuse to understand just how despicable the lack of empathy and support for obese individuals is, the impact upon their loves and that of their families, as well as the cost of their care to the NHS and taxpayer, should be ashamed of themselves… and mind their own business.

It's an interesting argument, and a well-versed one. I don't think the NHS should deny treating people whose illnesses are 'self inflicted' (I actually wouldn't have included folic acid). I also think the causes of obesity are multifaceted so while I probably disagree with you that it's a disease, I do think there's an argument to help people irrespective of the cause. In the case of obesity this would include many avenues: better nutrition advice, dieticians etc. It can't just be weight loss jabs. Similarly, heroin addicts attempting to get clean are likely offered therapy alongside methadone. I'm glad it's benefited you.

The WHO and pretty much every national and global medical agency would disagree with you and are categoric that obesity IS a disease. But I am sure you know better.

I didn’t start the thread to ask why people are against them, I wanted to know why people thought they were cheating - specifically that.

It wasn’t out of nowhere - there was a thread yesterday not specifically about WLIs, where a poster plopped in that people who take them were cheating, and at last count at least 6 others had posted and agreed. So it’s not just the ‘pro WLI brigade’ bringing it up in other topics or ‘out of nowhere’. I’ve also seen this exact wording on various other threads - admittedly ones more directly about weight loss - and I was genuinely intrigued about it. Because why cheating specifically? I think it’s an incredibly revealing turn of phrase, but I wanted to understand what those who felt that way meant by it.

I haven’t ‘leapt on’ or ‘absolutely battered’ anyone. I’ve read the points with interest, shared some experiences (including the negative bits of the jabs for me) and thanked one poster for their honesty. I’ve disagreed with some, but doesn’t mean I’ve not been interested to hear what they want to say. I’ve been rude back to someone who has rude and facile to me, but that’s all.

I don’t have an issue that people don’t agree with or have reservations about the drugs. That’s fine. Often those reservations are based on completely false assumptions or misinformation though and I think it’s fair enough to correct or take issue with that.

I think it’s an interesting topic, enough to justify conversation outside of the dedicated board, and there’s been enough replies for me to feel that other people thought so too. But the thread was very clearly titled as about weight loss injections so anyone who really is sick of reading about them could have quite easily scrolled past.

I know it's completely irrational and my grown up good friend brain thinks it's amazing. But the tiny unkind spiteful side wants to say it's cheating. I think because I spend a lot of time thinking about food but not eating it and exercising and all the things you have to do and still struggle to keep the weight off.
However there is an equally small niggly bit of me that would like to "have a go" myself but because of the above I would not be eligible iyswim
I'm just being honest. I would love to say I don't feel like that at all but you wanted an honest answer. I'm not proud of myself and I'm working on it.

Excellent post. I’m stunned at the stuff I’m reading, the drugs are a fad?

Seriously, every medical journal of note says they are the biggest advancement in medicine for decades, maybe ever, because when we cure obesity we reduce cancer, stroke, heart attack , diabetes, joint replacements.

they are about to be approved for cardio vascular and kidney disease. Trials underway on dementia,addiction, athritis. The list is growing,

but hey let’s call it a fad and send everyone for a bit of therapy, see if that works. Because what, taking the medicine is wrong? because some folks did it the hard way,

tough. Medical science has advanced, we can cure obesity, and we can cure it long term.

Anyone who doesn’t like it? Try a little therapy. Help you adjust.

I think there is a real issue with people somehow believing that obese people have never tried to lose weight and never experienced that struggle and hard work. I asked someone upthread if they truly believe that anyone would go straight to expensive injections without trying other ways to lose weight first - it's ridiculous when you think about it. People get stuck in a yoyo cycle because almost everyone who loses weight by any means gains it back plus more. If you do that enough times in your life then you end up obese. You can have worked so, so hard throughout the years to lose weight but have nothing to show for it at the end except a fatter body.

So what I would say is - you're someone who has struggled, still struggles, but is successful. There are other people who have struggled just as hard but failed, over and over again. I don't believe that many people lead a merry path to an obese BMI, having a lovely time and enjoying themselves heartily and then go 'ok great, time to spend £150+ a month on injections now to lose it!'. You are talking about people who have tried and tried and tried and now have the chance to do something that will finally actually help them.

Name a diet, I've been on it. I've always been a gym member too. A lot of us know the struggle you're talking about, and it defeated us. That wasn't a pleasant experience. It wasn't a nice time eating cake with our feet up. It's despair, hopelessness, failure, self loathing, exhaustion, numbness, misery, pain stretching out over decades from childhood to middle age, losing weight and gaining it again countless times, every one of them harder than it was before.

I appreciate the honesty truly!

Gosh! amazing. I'd never thought of that.

Fair enough, but cheating what? Cheating against the effort others have put in? When did the journey become more important than the prize?

I like everyone else have struggled, I make no apologies for the fact for me, I simply will focus on the prize,I don’t feel the struggle makes it more worthwhile. I don’t feel well slim people have it hard and are miserable, trying to stay that way, so best I pop off for some therapy and keep on with the struggle

nope. Screw that, I will grab the advancements in medical science with both hands. It will take me about six months all in to go from obese to slim. And I will stay in a low dose and stay slim. No I won’t be sitting thinking about food,denying myself, I will enjoy my life. Make healthy choices, exercise, and out this miserable episode of obesity where it belongs, in the past.

im sorry many people can’t have the same, because they can’t afford it, or they aren’t eligible, but that makes no part of me wish to continue to struggle with obesity or live as they do, as some form of penance or solidarity for their struggles.

But obesity more often than not has complex psychological causes

I think this medication is very clearly proving otherwise.
it’s not a mental health drug.

stop taking it, see if you can stay off the food though

That’s irrelevant to the point I was addressing.

Of course it’s cheating, as in if you can afford it you don’t have to work hard to achieve it. Same as getting a tummy tuck or lipo.

Aggressive 🤣 think you need to get out more! You say "that ok with you" and that's ok, I say the exact same words back and get called aggressive 💤

I don't see it as cheating at all. It is simply a tool to achieve an aim.
Is taking antidepressants cheating? There are lots of ways to boost your serotonin without resorting to meds,

You don't have to count calories on them. You just naturally eat fewer calories, like most people who are "naturally" thin.

I have to count calories on them. Every single day. Or I won't lose. Same as I have to excercise. I can't lose without it.

Okay, at first I didn't. But the weight loss stalled. And then I had to. I got to 13st and then it wouldn't shift. So calorie counting was the only option.

This is actually what many people think. It's a mixture of stupidity and ignorance.

Something that never seems to come up on these threads is the fact that GLP-1 is truncated in obesity. Interestingly calorie restriction weight loss does not rescue the effect in fact it dimishes the production of GLP1 even further.
Exercise does rescue it in a study using treadmill based exercise but not back to the baseline levels seen in individuals who have never been obese.
Certainly this is something I have found I could lose weight when I was running but an injury, a couple pregnancies and now arthritis in my knee has made that impossible and I am not getting the same effect from swimming.

i now plan on being on it for life as aside from its effect on my weight it has cured my arthritis ( currently in clinical trials for this use) and has treated my ADHD and associated depression and anxiety ( also something these drugs are under investigation for)

Would you tell somone with an underactive thyroid to not take a drug as its cheating? Would you tell someone with depression to not take an antidepressant as its cheating?

i think these drugs will be much more widely acxepted in a few years much like antidepressants are commonly accepted as a treatment.
Here's the paper if anyone is interested. Don't think it's behind a pay wall.
www.nature.com/articles/ijo2015220#Fig1

The only one being cheated is the self.