To think that if a man has had bottom surgery they should be put in a woman’s prison?

[Bex5490]

Genuinely interested in this and not trying to goad just want to understand.

When people talk of the threat of a man in women’s spaces, I assume the danger is because of their penis.

So if that’s gone then should they be categorised as a woman?

I’m kind of of the opinion that if you’re willing to put that much effort in (as in penis removal) regardless of your chromosomes, I’m happy for you to be called a woman…is this wrong?

*Additionally tansgender individuals are more likely than any other group, including women, to be the victims of violent crime and are often targets of hate crime. They are vulnerable and deserve protection which would be afforded by a trans wing in prison but certainly wouldn't be afforded by just throwing them in a mens prison to appease the people continually repeating a trans woman is a man. End of.
williamsinstitute.law.ucla.edu/press/ncvs-trans-press-release/

Trans people are statistically proven to be more vulnerable and are not inherent predators. The narrative that they are is unpleasant.*

No they aren't. This has been debunked several times.

www.mumsnet.com/talk/womens_rights/3430873-Williams-Institute-lied-about-transgender-prevalence-to-boost-their-arguments

It's only the first tweet that's about fish. You need to see them all. My personal favourites are flatworms and tuatara but they're all brilliant and you may notice a pattern emerging!

76 sex offenders out of 131000 trans women = 0.058%

The figure feminists use for overall pop is based on the number of "trans women" in the England & Wales census. You and your Medium blogger are using a different figure. The 2021 census puts the number of MTFs as 48,000 not 131,000. Why is this person pretending it's based on a different figure?

https://x.com/jeremykauffman/status/1831685340064559557

"They are vulnerable and deserve protection which would be afforded by a trans wing in prison but certainly wouldn't be afforded by just throwing them in a mens prison to appease the people continually repeating a trans woman is a man."

A special trans wing was built and transgender inmates and their supporting groups rejected it as transphobic.

An excellent point. I await the reply. I know it will be great.

I agree that a woman is a biological truth.

But I think there are other components that make someone feel like a woman and yes those are based on gender stereotypes because that is the world we live in.

Which is wrong but it is where we are at as a society.

It isn’t so long ago that women weren’t allowed to wear trousers. We are still very much existing in a world governed by gender stereotypes.

Can I ask seriously why you think we don’t base laws around the fact that people become ready to reproduce around 12 or 13?

In what way does someone who has used his penis to rape women "feel like a woman"?

But I think there are other components that make someone feel like a woman and yes those are based on gender stereotypes because that is the world we live in.

Like what? What makes a male think they feel like a woman, and why is it relevant to me, a woman?

It isn’t so long ago that women weren’t allowed to wear trousers. We are still very much existing in a world governed by gender stereotypes.

You think the answer is to double down on them?

This.

Since a man can only be a man how can he ever know how it feels to be a woman? He doesn't know how women feel.
All he can say is "I feel like I imagine women to feel" or "I feel like I fit the gender stereotypes of women more than the gender stereotypes of men".

Because it has been understood that a person of that age cannot consent to having sex?

Because the mortality rate is higher?

I am not actually sure why you though this was relevant

Since a man can only be a man how can he ever know how it feels to be a woman? He doesn't know how women feel.
All he can say is "I feel like I imagine women to feel" or "I feel like I fit the gender stereotypes of women more than the gender stereotypes of men".

Exactly, which is why their interpretations of "womaning" are often so completely unconvincing.

People keep saying that laws should be based on biological truths not beliefs.

What I mean is that it is a biological truth that people of this age are ready to have children. It is our belief that this is wrong because of our moral code or beliefs.

We have created laws based on our beliefs here because it is the right and humane thing to do.

Yes, and the biological truth - that it's possible to have sex with children and some people want to - is the basis for the protection in law against it. The biological truth here is that humans are all male or female, that males pose a significant threat at a class level to females and that there are times it is necessary to create single sex spaces for safety and dignity. Because of the truth of two sexes and the nature of them.

We aren't affirming that everything that can happen in nature must be encouraged. We're acknowledging what can happen and protecting against it!

And it is a biological truth that a girl of 12 or 13 has a greater chance of mortality or their child. So this is factored into the law, isn't it?

It could also be said that it is a 'biological' fact that they do not have the capacity to consent to having a child at that age because their brain has not finished developing.

They may genuinely believe this, @Bex5490 - but firstly, why should I have to sign up to their belief, act as if it is a material reality, and reject my own knowledge of male and female biology - because, make no mistake, this is exactly what the trans rights activists insist on?

And secondly - how can any male individual actually know what it feels like to be female? They cannot experience actually being female, any more than I can actually experience being a cat - all they can do is to base their beliefs off the (old fashioned, frankly toxic) stereotypes of gender - girls like pink, skirts, make up, long hair, sparkly things etc, boys like rough sports, short hair and trousers. They are simply making assumptions about what it feels like to be a woman, with no actual, lived experience.

You might have missed it, but can you explain why you think that this sub group of male people should have the additional rights to have a specific third accomomodation space for their use compared to other male people with philosophical beliefs that might make them a minority?

What other philosophical belief do you think needs a third prison accommodation space specifically for them? Why is this group to be treated so differently in your view?

Having the brain capacity to consent is subjective. One person’s brain might be significantly more developed at 16 than someone else’s at 18.

Let me be clear, I am not arguing for any changes in these laws! But mortality is high amongst 40 year olds who get pregnant.

Our laws on this are not based on the biological fact that a girl is biologically able to reproduce from when they start their period until menopause.

They are based on a belief system that we have built based on our beliefs now and the society we have created.

But what has that got to do with anything here?

I’m unsure of what other group would need a third space. I do think there should be disabled spaces for disabled people, groups for minorities that want to have that etc.

In fact I guess religious people deserve their own spaces…

Isla Bryson herself raped two women before her transition and none after.

What the fuck have I just read? Someone genuinely thought this was a valid argument for defending the statistics of sex crimes committed by male people with transgender identities?

Bryson attended a beauty school where the girls were coerced to be almost naked with Bryson when they didn't want to be AFTER Bryson transitioned. Bryson was abusing female people sexually AFTER transition, it just wasn't rape. So, apparently, the person who wrote that line thought that was ok to ignore! Because no action was ever taken so no worries.

Our laws on this are not based on the biological fact that a girl is biologically able to reproduce from when they start their period until menopause.

They are, though. They're recognising that fact and protecting her against what might happen as a consequence.

If we wanted to deny the biological truth here as we are being pressured to do for women, we'd say that the existence of infertility conditions makes this an incredibly complicated matter full of subjective truths and anyone who wants to have sex with a 13 year old girl should be able to because otherwise you're being dogmatic and bigoted and not understanding the complexity of it.

Well people are saying that we should only create laws based on truths/facts/ biology.

Our laws should only allow people to be classed as male or female because that is the biological truth.

I’m making the point that some very necessary laws are based on feelings not fact.