Reform and abortion

[Craftymam]

Just a public service announcement as I missed this last week and find it quite shocking that coverage was so low.

Nigel Farage has said he wants to ‘open a new discussion’ on abortion rights.

Considering everything that’s gone on in America, the rise in popularity of reform and this alleged 100 Million donation from Elon musk; I felt I had to bring this to everyone’s attention.

Fair enough, I can only hope you're right.

I suppose only time will tell but thank you for answering.

Thank you for being rational. Honestly, Reform voters do not want to see women’s choices eroded. There would be even more riots should any party think that taking away women’s rights was acceptable

The hospital I work at will intervene at 22 weeks so I completely agree with you.

You can see what is happening in the US but don’t think that people in the UK have the appetite for the same.
To think that ‘right wing’ voters want the same is beyond naive.
Why do you think they push back so hard on Islam and their beliefs? It’s not because they want to do away with women’s rights. It’s because they see that it ‘may’ impact on our society and are fighting to stop it.
You don’t have to like Reform or its voters, but they certainly do not want what you are saying might happen.

Reform voters are obviously not a monolith, but I fully expect far stricter controls on abortion to become a popular policy among its members. Not necessarily because they revel at the thought of limiting women's freedoms but because the only realistic way to reduce immigration in the medium or long term (probably the cornerstone of the party's platform) is to hugely bolster domestic birthrates.

Exactly I agree most reform voters wouldn’t want this (there’s a tiny portion across all parties am sure hence the word ‘most’).

But now he’s said it. I’m not crossing my fingers and hoping it disappears by omission or forgetfulness.

I will accept nothing but a downright declaration that Reform have no interest in reforming abortion rights.

And until that day I’m going to make sure damn well that every woman and potential reform voter I meet knows that is what Farage said.

So I hope Reform does find this thread. You have a supporter in TinklySnail saying that’s not what Reform voters want. And you have me a swing voter who’s saying that’s not what I want.

How do you know what reform voters want? Are they a hive with you at the helm? And why would you be under the impression that Reform cares about riots? They seemed rather pleased with the last ones didn't they?

https://www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/politics/farage-abortion-limit-reform-b2655446.html

I do find it interesting that Mr Farage has even commented on the Abortion debate given his previously careful neutral position.

With me at the helm? Aww, I’m flattered.

My point was, you're not. You can't possibly speak for all reform voters. You don't know and can't control what they support.

@Dotjones

I disagree with much of what you say, but I do think abortion up to 12 weeks, or at least the limits of the abortion pill should be prescribed by gps and practice nurses on demand, no need for 2 drs

And that is your right. I like debate and discussion. It’s the only way we will find a common ground.
I love my country and will always defend our nation.
Reform need to get ostracise the racists. If they don’t they will not succeed.
I am hoping Kemi will have the balls to make the Conservative Party great again. I have much faith in this. Should she not, I will turn to Reform

@TinklySnail - Presumably you agree that the largest barrier to reducing the UK's dependency on immigration (Reform's core policy) is to hugely increase birth rates among British-born people.

Although birth rates do tick up a little in times of economic prosperity, even when people have more money in their pocket, birth rates haven't got close to the replacement rate for decades now.

Noting that you are against limiting women's reproductive freedom, how would you go about increasing domestic birth rates, so as to allow immigration to be cut?

Do you agree that this is the likely reason that Farage is raising the issue?

Ah @Fluufer It has nothing to do with political affiliation and everything to do with what’s right for the UK as a whole.
I am certainly not bothered about who votes for who at present. We have a Labour government for the next 4 years.
The initial protest was terrible, subsequent protests have been peaceful.
I’d rather see a protest for British issues than Palestinian issues. If you think that’s is thuggery then you are entitled to that opinion.

Surely the vast, vast majority of late abortions are due to the fetus having severe disabilities or being unlikely to live long or survive the birth?

At this stage abortion is a pretty harrowing and I doubt many women go into it lightly. I watched a drama called "Three Families" about women in Northern Ireland unable to abort babies who were going to die either at birth or during the pregnancy. It was just horrific.

This isn't about the very complicated ethical ins and outs and heartbreaking decisions families have to make. This is simply attempting to bring US culture wars here and we must resist it!

The obvious answer is to scrap the 2 child limit for Universal Credit.
Whilst I see why it was introduced it has had an impact on abortion increases and birth rates levels of British citizens.
Im not an economist or politician. I basically know nothing,
What I can see is people want immigration to fill skills gaps. If government had the balls they’d be harsher/give more support on those who don’t work.
It’s no use saying asylum seekers can plug a gap when there are British people who could work but don’t possess the skills to get these jobs.

I'm not sure why you seem to think you have the capacity to speak for anyone other than yourself though. You can't make sweeping declarations about what reform voters or the UK will decide is right for the UK.
You don't know what other people will think is right with enough persuasion. You don't know what they will decide is acceptable collateral for the cause.

It's difficult to fault the logic of this position, though, if one agrees that the bodily autonomy of the mother trumps the right to life of the baby 🤷🏻
(I don't agree with it, but I respect the logical consistency.)

I don’t speak for anyone. I agree that sweeping statements are irrelevant. I merely give my own opinion, as do you.
I am not here to argue about who’s right and who’s wrong.
I merely give my opinion. I try to see things from all sides, which is hard when you don’t agree with something.
I do not speak for anyone or any party, I just feel that regardless of political persuasion, we need more tolerance for those who may think differently.
You obviously has a problem with me. So what is it about my words that anger you so much?

That is fucking disgusting.

You do remember that an aborted foetus has TWO parents, right? A father as well as a mother?
You can argue that the woman has more rights over the life of that foetus than the father, as she's carrying it in her own body, but to say that men have absolutely NOTHING to do with abortion is a bit... odd.

You've made repeated sweeping statements about women, about reform and now about the whole of the UK. I haven't. You aren't preaching tolerance, you are telling other women to shut up and give space for men to erode our rights under some la la notion you have of imagined solidarity.

What the fuck ever. Is that better?

The father has rights over his own body and can access a vasectomy if he feels strongly enough about the risk of not getting a say over what a women does with her body and the fetus that is living off it.

https://adfinternational.org/en-gb/news/us-congressional-committee-criticises-uk-censorship

Hmm. In the interests of getting a full picture of this debate, have poked around on the Interwebz and it seems Monsieur Farage is killing two birds with one stone as it were, championing "free speech" and tying it into things like the buffer zones around abortion clinics which has come under criticism in the US. I'm getting that slow creep feeling again......