Need a hand hold part 4

[Imbluedalale]

Hi spoonies .
Welcome to season 4 xxx

I did wonder which you were looking at, yes those are definitely non rinse too. You can warm them up in the microwave, which feels much nicer than cold, especially in the winter. It's not exactly like a shower hair wash but much nicer than nothing.

Teenagers do get better once they get a little bit older and experience life at uni or being more independent. My daughter is not as autonomous as she would be if she wasn't autistic but she still has a bit more perspective than she did say between 15 to 18. She's more aware of her emotions and the way she can react because of them. She's also been able to explain her thought process better, so I am more aware of things she might find challenging. It's made our relationship even better.

Also keep in mind that there's bound to be a negative narrative that's being told to her directly or overheard, when she's with your ex and family. Even if it's not landing and she doesn't believe any of it, it's emotionally unsettling. Especially as you are all negotiating the way life will be as a family going forward. She, like your other kids have to fit in and keep the peace while at your ex's, because they are still dependants. It can be hard trying to look one way to him, while secretly feeling a different way. Like the way she was honestly talking about how nice your house was, only to be told it's a council house, to make her feel bad. Then hearing that you might get it "taken off" you, just makes her anxious and afraid. Then she'll start feeling guilty about sharing the information. Its so horrible for them to be using the emotions of your children like this but it's not uncommon.

Teenagers aren't great at either realising what is bothering them or talking about it directly. It can come out in being angry and unreasonable, even when they realise it's unreasonable to be angry. They can pick arguments about something else, rather than the thing that it's about. Sometimes they are being horrible as a way to get proof that they are loved. Sort of "Well if they love me they will stop me", sort of thing. Rather than just asking for a cuddle which would be much nicer all around. We had a therapist come into college to talk about parenting teens and she went into how their brains develop. In her words "Teenage brains are very similar to terrorist's", which I found shocking at the time. However I could understand that they don't have the same ability to stop and think things through and tend to be quite reactive. Which can make you feel like you never know what you are going to face. Add in periods and it's a perfect storm.😰

That all makes so much sense. Thank you.
I try not to as I hate feeling angry but I am feeling a little angry lately that ex did all this , made me homeless and now affecting my relationship with my children. I just want to feel nothing for him and feeling angry with him is still a feeling which frustrates me.
I know my children are going through a lot and I know this is all incredibly hard for them and I hate that I’ve contributed to that . All I want is for them to be happy.
I can’t offer what my ex does, I don’t have a job , I get poorly often and I don’t have much money just enough to get by , just makes me feel worthless some days more than others. My daughter’s dream car is a Range Rover and my ex has been telling her that next year he’ll get one to drive around in . He’s always said he hates those cars! I just feel like I can’t compete with him and I’ll never be able to. I’m not materialistic at all , most of my stuff in my new home is second hand or from car boot but I’m so happy with it all and I’m wearing my sisters old clothes because ex burnt most my stuff and I look like crap and I don’t care about money like my ex does but my children seem to love that lifestyle and it’s a lifestyle I can’t offer xx

I can see where you are coming from but all those flashy things in life, while appealing to some aren't really important. Your kids might not realise that yet and can be swayed for a bit.

You're not going to magically be able to outspend him and you shouldn't try. Buying affection rarely works, especially if it doesn't come with care and love between the big "demonstrations". It can leave you feeling like you are just a commodity, paid to go away until they have a use for you.

Which would you prefer?

Someone who only supports you when you do what they want you to. Who will belittle your aspirations and tell lies and manipulate your feelings. BUT they will buy you fancy stuff occasionally to make you feel better.

OR someone who is constantly looking out for you and cheering you on. Makes sure they show you that you are important to them and loved. Who is ready to listen to your dreams and tell you that you are going to be able to attain them. Who might not have a lot of money but makes sure you are taken care of and gets you little treats when they can. Who cares about you when you are sad and always a shoulder to cry on when things go wrong. Who will never be able to get you a dream car but will show you how to be your best self and never give up, so one day you can be proud of yourself for attaining it. know who I want in my life and prefer.

It's also best not to get into a "which person is best" fight if you can. If he gives her a car, it doesn't diminish the steadfast love you give her, it just means she's got a car. Let him do the best of him that he can and be glad for her when he does something nice and be there for her for the many many times he will fall short. You are going to have a few years before she's full standing on her own feet and she's going to need both of you and find value in the things both of you provide for her, both emotionally and financially. As long as they are safe and not being abused by your ex and family, there's things that will benefit your kids by having contact.

@Imbluedalale I'm absolutely sure you don't look like crap!! I bet you look more lovely than you can imagine.

It's really really hard starting again and I'm astonished how quickly you have put a beautiful home together. Secondhand doesn't mean cheap or nasty, it means smart and clever. You're using your head and indomitable spirit to make the most of your means and chosen some lovely pieces to make things cosy.

Don't forget that we have seen the photos and many of us Spoonies would love our house to look like yours and have said so.

You’re so good with words @BeNavyCrab . Thank you 🙏
He isn’t giving her a car he’s getting one for himself because daughter said he likes them even though he has always said he hates them and that they are very ‘joskiny’ .
Anyway your so right about everything and whilst I can’t provide much materialistically I can provide unlimited love and support and encouragement.
I don’t want my children to be weak like me so I want them to know their worth in life and not take any rubbish from anyone. Most of all I want them to be happy. Because I’ve spent many years being sad and I’d hate them to ever feel like that xx

Thank you @BeNavyCrab that’s so lovely.
Thank you for supporting me and reassuring me. I hope one day I can be like you and be able to help somebody.
I am extremely chuffed with my home and how it’s turning out and I’m excited to save up next year and get more things for it to make it more homely and what’s more is that I don’t ever have to worry about somebody kicking me out onto the streets or turning the electric off at night when I can’t sleep just to spite me or having people singing loudly or banging pans above my head to wake me up. I feel so much more calmer being here already I just wish I had my children here with me xx

You actually made me laugh out loud.
Weak like you!! Who are you talking about? May I introduce you to Laura? You are most definitely not weak. You have been and are incredibly brave, determined and resourceful. You're showing them that despite many different serious problems, you are getting up every day and working on making it better one.

Yes, it took time to realise that you had been put in a prison but it's never cut and dried. It's still possible to love someone who treats you terribly and be holding out for them returning to the person who you fell in love with. It's further complicated by the love of your children and not wanting anything to impact them. We will choose to suffer so that they don't.

None of the above makes you weak. You are teaching them to value themselves and to be able to recognise when they start to get controlled, as that's the most difficult thing as it is so slow and insidious. And you 100 percent are teaching them how to be strong by being who you are! Never never forget that. Xx

I know that in the future you will be supporting someone else who is having a hard time. It's often those who have walked in the darkness, who are best placed to hold the torch for another because we know how difficult it is to imagine the light.

🥹🥹🥹🥹🥹🥹🥹Thank you thank you thank you @BeNavyCrab . That’s so lovely of you to say. I do feel weak sometimes I should have got out at the first sign of trouble , when he slept with my sister. I well and truly had the wool pulled over my eyes. He said at the time my sister went round every day I was at work trying it on with him and he eventually gave in in the hope she’d stop after then 😂god I was so dumb.
What are your plans today @BeNavyCrab ?xx

My husband has the day off work today so I think we are going to wrap up the Christmas presents. We are going to my parents for Christmas. My daughter is joining us there from uni and our son will come when he starts his holiday time. So we will all be together for both my husband's birthday before Christmas and for Christmas itself. It's really special to be able to be together and spend time with eachother.

Awww that sounds absolutely perfect @BeNavyCrab . It’s so lovely that you and your husband do stuff together you sound so well suited. Your Christmas Day sounds magical xx

Hi Laura you weren’t being ignorant yesterday, you were having a much needed rest.
Your daughter is so unbelievably selfish, to think you could go to the cinema so soon after your op. You are not a crap mum, but a lovely caring one.
You have got it into your head that you are crap, by all the negativity you have had to hear and experience throughout the years.
You are amazing, we care about you, you have gone through so much and still going through so much, you need to rest.
It doesn’t matter if you don’t update your thread daily but it does matter that you are ok. 😘🌺

Morning @Nottogetapenny , how are you today?
Thank you for saying what you have I needed to hear that. I’ve been feeling terrible all morning that I’ve let my daughter down but you’re right I am poorly and I need to rest. The hospital said I’m to put bear minimum pressure on it so to rest up as much as possible. My daughter said that I’ll be sat down in the cinemas but I said it’s more than that . I felt really woozy yesterday and couldn’t keep my eyes open.
Thank you so much for caring about me that means more than you’ll ever know, I care about all you spoonies too.
I hope your have a nice day @Nottogetapenny sending you a hug xx

@Imbluedalale just catching up before I go to work getting crosser and crosser on your behalf!!
@BeNavyCrab and @Nottogetapenny have said everything I want to say!
You would have been mad to go to the cinema yesterday...or even this week
Your kids are v v influenced by what they have seen and heard from Twat and his family
You are amazing, lean on your support worker today xxx

I agree with the other spoonies. You’ve done absolutely nothing wrong. You couldn’t possibly go to the cinema. Your daughter is just being a typical, thoughtless teenager.

Finish ‘That Christmas’. It’s so good, though be warned a bit of a tear jerker.

Keep calm and carry on. You’re doing soooo well. It’ll all be ok with your kids. Oh and you’re not responsible for your mum getting ill. You didn’t deliberately get cancer did you. Your mum is responsible for her own mental health, so any siblings who get mardy with you can fuck off!

Just want to agree with all the others, you being ill is not your fault, you need to look after yourself and that is your number one priority. Your daughter is probably so used to you putting everyone else’s needs above your own that she is struggling to understand that can’t always happen. But it can’t always happen, and nor should it. So don’t apologise to her, you have done nothing wrong, she’s the one who should feel bad for pressuring you. Resting after an operation is simply a lot more important than going to the cinema!

And I totally agree with @Apolloneuro , your mum’s mental health is her issue to manage, if she struggles that’s not your fault, you don’t have to protect her and you don’t have to hide from everyone how ill you actually feel.

You matter Laura. You are important.

It sounds like a little thing with everything else you’re dealing with, but if your bed is too hot and sweaty to sleep in comfortably, that matters more than your mum getting her feelings hurt a tiny bit about you not using the stuff she bought you. (I have those furry pillow cases, we use them for camping in summer and in winter I put one at the bottom of my bed to snuggle my feet into which is lovely. Any more fur than that on the bed and I’d be a miserable sweaty mess!)

You matter, your needs matter, you have nothing to feel guilty about. All of us are on your side. Just rest and focus on your health. xxx

Hi @Munchyseeds2 , how are you today? I hope you have a good day at work.
You and everybody else has given me such great advice and support. Thank you 🙏
I think I worry too much on how I make others feel. At my old home I was never allowed to talk about my cancer or feeling poorly because exs mum didn’t like it . She used to always say ‘it’s only skin cancer’ or ‘if you wanna know what a hard life is try losing your husband then you’ll know how I feel’ and my ex ignored everything to do with it and then whilst I was at the hotel I was told I’d made my mum poorly by making her blood pressure high hence some of my family not speaking to me and I’m terrified of making her poorly again because I love her and I don’t want her to get poorly or be the reason for it.
My daughter isn’t replying to any of my messages now I’ve told her I’m sorry for letting her down and she’s read it but not replied .
Im seeing my mental health team today which I’m very glad of , I can talk to them and tell them what’s on my mind without upsetting anyone. I’m not feeling depressed or suicidal and I’m not having bad thoughts I just feel sad 😔and I need a cuddle.
I will be ok though your all telling me I’m strong so I keep saying that to myself.
I hope you have a lovely day @Munchyseeds2 and I’m looking forward to hearing what’s on the menu at the weekend xx

Good morning @Apolloneuro , how are you feeling today? I’m definitely going to watch the rest of that Christmas today and get cosy in front of the tv.
I love that …Keep calm and carry on , thank you. I need some of your strength and iron will. Maybe I’ll get ask you to send an email to my daughter.
Ive just read you saying I’m not responsible for my mum getting ill 🥹🥹🥹🥹thank you for saying that @Apolloneuro . I’m tired of pussy footing around everyone and putting everyone’s needs and feelings before my own. Sometimes I matter too xx

Mate don’t send any more messages to your daughter apologising for letting her down - you HAVEN’T let her down. You had a blinking chunk of your leg cut out!

We’re trying not to do this narrative of you being dreadful, sweetheart, although it’s a voice that’s shouting loudly in your head. Speak to that part of you and tell it to please settle down, as you’ve got things under control.

Actually if anyone’s letting anyone down it’s her to you, but we forgive her because she’s a daft teenager.

Hi @Meanwhile33 , well now I’m bawling 🥹. You’re all so so lovely to me and kind and supportive. It’s alright when your support worker or mental health team say nice things about you but you do think that’s what they do because they wouldn’t say to someone ‘your doing crap, you need throwing back and your crazy’ so it’s so lovely to hear all you spoonies say such nice supportive things.
My children don’t seem too bothered about me being poorly as exs mum tells them ‘it’s not proper cancer’ and I don’t want them to worry about me but just sometimes I would like to be shown a little love or care .
I know it sounds silly but I’m scared to tell my mum and dad how bad I feel and that I’m feeling sad because my mum gets stressed then my dad gets upset with me for stressing my mum out . It’s just bloody hard sometimes.
I’ve not mattered nor been important to anyone since I was made homeless well not any of my family anyway. If I didn’t have you spoonies then I don’t know what I would have done .
I had to change my bed yesterday anyway as my leg messed it up and I’ve got normal bedding on now so that’s a lot better.
Thank you so much for saying I matter @Meanwhile33 it truly means a lot . And thank you for being on my side. I’m sorry for grumbling when other people are going through far worse I’m just having a bad week.
I hope you have a lovely day @Meanwhile33 , big hugs xx

Thank you @Apolloneuro , I won’t text daughter saying I’m sorry anymore . Hopefully she’ll calm down soon and talk to me again.
I hate this voice in my head that makes me feel rubbish! I really hate it . I’m trying so hard to be positive and I am being positive about the cancer it’s just everything else . I’m tired of begging my children to see me.
I will just carry on I think I’m feeling extra sensitive this week from the op and time of month xx

One day, when you’re feeling better you might like to read up on the Internal Families System model of therapy, developed by a guy called Dick Schwartz.

Basically all parts are trying to protect us and be helpful. It’s just that the part that tells you you’re rubbish is a bit misguided and needs accepting, healing and rebalancing. That’s what I mean by saying tell it to please hush (in a nice way like you would a child).

I’ve got to rush out now but I’ll write more later xxx

Hi Laura - what a rubbish time you're having - just rest when you feel like resting right now - and totally get the 'just not today' thing - you're listening to your mind/body and that's the most essential thing.
Your daughter- just a few thoughts - she's going to be self absorbed at around 16 (?) but they turn back into humans eventually- girls are often extra dramatic alongside though (sigh). Things that jumped out at me - she does not want to think of you as poorly; you're her Mum and it upsets her to a point she doesn't want to think even the tiniest bit about it so she pushes to prove it's ok really; Mums are seen as the invincible rock but just because she needs you, loves you, and wants you there forever - don't expect her to actively say this anytime particularly soon though! Also her friends can't go and have that time at your exes, you're nicer than that - you listen/have empathy and care for her needs/interests, not getting that so much with Dad/Gruesome Gran. She feels totally safe with you to tantrum - would she do that at her dad's?
It's natural to feel you let her down - you didn't though - and despite above it's fine she starts learning about you, your needs, and gaining some empathy and skills to take into adult life - you're still teaching her these things, as her Mum, even if it's not as straightforward as we hope/imagine.
Re 'stuff' - when kids were small and paternal Nan went OTT on stuff a nursery worker caught my expression (contact arrangements meant daughter had been dropped there after) - she said 'let them enjoy it, don't take that away' - I tried very hard on this since - very hard it is too tbh. They didn't love her more, or less tbf, for this ultimately- the high of the stuff was 'fleeting', it was what happened with Nan but making no odds to what happened with mum, and as adults they know how people are. They always loved their Nan, but saw her faults, and were much closer to me than her. Long long paragraph to say not worry about it - you know why your ex does this and so will your daughter- she may even know now but she's never going to turn it down!
Blood pressure- load of tosh imo and don't they think they're stressing your Mum being so adverse to her relationship with you - she wants to support all her kids and will be worried about all of you in different ways - she will get much pleasure helping you now too.
Wish I could send a nice crafted card pic - but it would be depressing and scary if I tried 🙈🤣 - wishing you a restful day though and you are doing great!

I’m so sorry Laura that you were feeling so groggy yesterday. I’m sure it’s a really normal reaction to the op and the anaesthetic on top of everything else. And of course you couldn’t go to the cinema! You did exactly the right thing - fainting in the cinema or on the way and going off to hospital would have been a worse night for your daughter , you really need to look after your physical health just now.

I wonder if part of your children pulling away a bit and are being not very caring is that they’re actually a bit worried and scared so they sort of just ignore the situation (and therefore you) and even create a bit of drama (on your daughter’s part) to make it about them. In a totally normal teen way but to displace their fears and centre themselves. I’m not sure I would really have known what to do if my mum was ill at those ages.

They also have your ex’s attitude towards you as an example and him and his Mum’s evil little voices in their ears. I think just keep on being the calm voice of reason and love. I may have said this before but my Uncle who’s a mental health nurse, when I was going through things with my ex, said you have to “surround them with a sea of reasonableness” and I often think of that saying. I was imagining you surrounding your children with a sea of love, reasonableness and compassion. I’m sure you’ve already done that and they are aware on some level that your ex has been an absolute arse to you but are stuck in the fog, trying to appease him themselves (I assume they save their worst behaviour for you and are angels for him? Mine definitely does!). Did you ever discuss your broken ribs that the principal told your daughter about with her?

My DS absolutely asks and asks and asks if he wants something (usually a sleepover). I have to be really really firm and do worry that I’ve upset him but he actually just takes it on the chin, it’s me who is left feeling worried and crappy. I’m sure you’r daughter will forget about it all sooner than you do!

My close friend has a teen who was nagging and complaining about something and she reached the end of her tether and shouted “well what do you actually want me to do about it?!” and he calmly said “oh, nothing really, I just wanted a moan...”. I always try and remember "he just wants a moan... he just wants a moan..." when DS is going on and on and on… Sometimes they actually get an emotional need met by the nagging/pushing/complaining.

I think the anger you feel towards your ex is so so normal and needs to be felt rather than swallowed down and held onto as it will only come out later on. There are some good techniques for releasing anger like stomping and things - they may not be possible right now when you’re in recovery but I’ll try and find some good ones when you’re feeling a bit better or some that can be done more easily.

Ugh at your family blaming you for your mum’s blood pressure. It’s 100% not your fault, nor is you having cancer or your ex throwing you out or the situation with your children. You’ve done amazingly well to get to this point given everything, you have nothing to feel bad or guilty about at all. Sending a big hug and lots of feel better vibes to you. Enjoy the rest of the film, I was listening to Richard Curtis talking about it on Zoe ball on radio 2 this morning on the nursery run. It sounds really lovely.

Well done for ringing the doctors. that’s such an achievement (I say this as the person who needs to book a smear test).

@BeNavyCrab good luck to your daughter in her next exam. The card is beautiful!

I better post this now before I write more and it gets any more of a novel! Hello all the spoonies. Hope you're all OK.