The older we get, the more conservative we become?

[EddyF]

Just wondering if people believe this. I’m in my thirties and although I have always had real socialist views and I have always voted Labour, I am struggling with some of my current viewpoints which lean more to the conservative way. I think I have lost a bit of societal empathy and seeing things as a ‘dog eat dog world; everyone out for themselves’.

There are so many issues I see locally (London) that I just think not everyone can be saved. The services are stretched; high streets are depressing and people have too many needs and often those needs are not isolated and are multiple. I feel less empathetic and more “can’t you just help yourself”. There doesn’t appear to be a safety net or one that is efficient enough, which to my surprise, has harden me a bit. Maybe it is age😆

You should be in the Olympics with that level of gymnastics.

Tell me how good Brexit is for the economy. I could do with cheering up.

The only reason people historically became more conservative as they aged was because they had wealth. They had property, money in the bank etc and didn't want to pay extra taxes so they voted conservative. Millennials are the first generation where wealth has not grown and surprising no one - it's the first generation not to have become more conservative.
That's why the conservatives are going so far right, because they're afraid of disappearing.

Because everything wasn't cut to the bone

Seriously? Why then, just to name one example, did public satisfaction with the NHS fall from 70% to 20% in 14 years?

@BIossomtoes

"And it failed spectacularly. Debt continued to rise and public services are broken. Austerity was ideological and its effects will continue to blight the country long after I’m dead"

Borrowing yet more money is not a solution and as Liz Truss and Rachel Reeves have shown is probably not even possible any more.

Calling austerity ideological is the same as describing paying off Christmas incurred credit card debts in January as ideological. It's not ideology it's a responsible fiscal necessity.

If you disagree with austerity then what would be your solution to reducing government debt and at the same time improving public services?

Haven't rtft but there's another thread talking about parties to the right and younger voters here and in other countries eg Germany

I wouldn't be surprised if we were to follow other EU countries looking at early shifts already

It may be an outlier but a poll put Labour third after conservatives and Reform

A while to go to next GE. It probably depends on whether the growth can deliver

@username299

"You should be in the Olympics with that level of gymnastics.

Tell me how good Brexit is for the economy. I could do with cheering up."

Thank you for your detailed economic counter argument.

Brexit has meant cutting the UK off from its main trading counterparty and it also weakened the UK's international trade negotiation bargaining position with other countries. From an economic perspective it most definitely shooting yourself in the foot.

Although I recognise that there maybe other perceived "emotional " issues such as having blue passports (albeit now made in Belgium).

@BIossomtoes

"Seriously? Why then, just to name one example, did public satisfaction with the NHS fall from 70% to 20% in 14 years?"

Because if it was truly "cut to the bone" then public satisfaction would have fallen further or alternatively the NHS replaced with a personal insurance model (rather than state insurance model) as in say Germany and potentially public satisfaction improved.

But no matter how much money is thrown at the NHS when a service is free at point of use then demand will always outstrip supply leading to demand being managed by queuing instead .

@EasternStandard

"A while to go to next GE. It probably depends on whether the growth can deliver"

I fully agree it will depend on whether growth can be delivered but let's pessimistically assume it doesn't.

Then at the next election I can see a further polarisation with a shift to a harder left (Labour wasn't left enough) and a shift to a harder right (left wing politics doesn't work).

France is interesting atm. Three major parties can be problematic with two taking out the third

I have thought politics would get shaky for a couple of years, we're starting to see it

How can it be responsible fiscal necessity when debt’s risen steadily in every single year of austerity? There’s no logic to it. You’ve drunk the ideological Koolaid.

France and other EU countries are struggling with debt and deficits

In fact very high debt is becoming increasingly problematic for France atm

Labour increasing our debt is risky too

I think this is the case for my DH as well.

I have never been very right wing, so haven't really changed my views.

My mum has been a Labour voter all her life and hasn't changed her views either.

However, I don't think male bodied people should be in female sport/single sex spaces and apparently that makes me far right.

Dh and I become more left wing with age, we are in our early 30s. Employment feels precarious. We try to save (always saved at least 26% to 70% of nett income) but a lot of our savings went to paying off dh student loan and mortgage overpayments so we only have 54k in savings which would be pennies if we didn't have the nhs (currently pregnant) or childcare subsidies. We bought a small 2 bed flat (400k) in London in our 20s and have a relatively low mortgage of 1282 but I doubt 54k would last very long if both lost our jobs. I mean I think it would probably hold out for a while but if we didn't have nhs and the welfare state it would all fall to pot.

I am happy to pay more tax if it means that I am safer during the bad times and don't lost the free healthcare. Almost had to use ivf and was grateful I qualified for 3 free cycles on the nhs. If I didn't have that you can bet I would have used 10k of my savings to do 1 cycle of ivf despite the low success rate and would have wound up considerably poorer.

Dh and I expect nothing from our parents so if the state isn't helping us, we just end up really poor with our measly savings wasted. I expect this will be the situation even when we are on much higher incomes as we have always felt poor despite not qualifying for child benefit and dh being a higher rate taxpayer. . We aren't a match for the inheritors

Me too, even more if possible. I grew up in the U.S. where I was considered very left wing but I'm just left of centre here.

OP, with age, to most, comes wisdom.
When you start thinking for yourself, and examine the realities of life, it’s hard to keep thinking left-wing, because you realise how jealousy-driven it all is…

Making simplistic assumptions about other people's motives is the opposite of wisdom.

That says an awful lot more about you and your understanding of ‘reality’ than about the left wing.

@sharpclawedkitten “I don't think male bodied people should be in female sport/single sex spaces and apparently that makes me far right”

This is an important point. Those labels don’t mean what they used to. A lot of them have just been used by the unscrupulous as insults. And because there’s a lag effect while cognition catches up, the name-calling actually works – there’s always a period where people who aren’t paying absolute attention modify their beliefs so as not to be ‘far right’.

That’s part of what produced the illusory consensus in favour of trans issues for a few years, and it was immensely harmful.

As you grow older (i am 32) you realize that there probably is a systemic reason why only 2 out of the 8 grandchildren of DH's grandfather (who bought a house in London at age 26] live outside the family/inlaws home and most of them are in their 30s (one even has a child). They don't live in London so London housing prices aren't the reason.
You also realize that a high income doesn't protect you from that (as it can be lost) or owning a flat in London with 40% equity or 54k in savings or saving 20 to 70% of your joint income from age 24 or overpaying your mortgage faithfully, you are terrified you will end up like them (living at home at 32 and dependent on the whims and fancies of your parents) especially with a baby on the way.. our joint net worth is 300k but I am still worried. I am not sure what else I need to do to feel more secure? Earn 200k?!

Why wouldn't you want a more interventionist state.

@BIossomtoes

"How can it be responsible fiscal necessity when debt’s risen steadily in every single year of austerity? There’s no logic to it. You’ve drunk the ideological Koolaid."

Firstly thank you for your detailed economic counter argument.

In answer to your question it was a fiscally irresponsible necessity to try and reduce debt. The problem is that what is economically responsible and needed is not politically possible.

Nobody is going to vote for higher taxes and get lower public spending on services just to reduce national debt.

As a result the austerity measures by the Conservatives were largely reduced or postponed.

This led to debt still increasing albeit by a lower amount than if they did no cuts to public spending. This of course was until the Covid measures blew the whole thing up with £500 billion spaffed away.

Again I am curious as to what your solution would be to solve the problem of record government debt interest payments eating into the Government's ability to fund public services.

And please try harder than "tax the rich " with the rich being defined as the usual anyone earning more than me.

Am I more conservative or do I just give less of a shit?

I have become more left wing as I have aged. I am no longer just wanting things for myself , I want other people to be helped as well. Cannot be one of those pensioners who want great social care with low taxes and no immigrants.

I've always sat right of centre since i was a teen, and definitely have moved further from centre as i've aged.

That’s not. The Overton window. That’s you (as is your right) voting based on one issue. The Tories have pulled the view of what centre is way to the right. That’s shifting the Overton window, not a group of people deciding to ignore vile right wing rhetoric and policies about vulnerable people because a party says they agree with them on one are of policy (but doesn’t actually do anything). It also was clearly not a large number however it feels to you - look at the election results.

I saw a fair bit like this recently - there was some poll that found younger people weren't getting more conservative as they aged like previous generations.

The speculation was it was later or not doing parenthood and house buying - less stake in society it was summarised as - but as being a parent radially changes many peoples outlooks could easily just be that.

I think other political surveys have found young men across developed counties at same time are getting more right wing - young women not as much.

Perhaps we are just in a time of shifting political stances and changing world order - we are facing new challenges climate change and aging populations while at same time still chasing economic growth.