My town has really changed

[CatbellsOnTheSeashore]

In a confusing and not very pleasant way.

It was gradually changing for the worse before covid, but the pandemic seemed to accelerate it, and I am wondering if anyone else has noticed anything like this.

It became more insular whilst more populated, the population increased quite a bit over the past 5 yrs. More and more dereliction, low council maintenance and an influx of troubled people housed around the town centre, which is now a no-go zone. Areas surrounding have steadily grown worse also, as it seems to be spilling out.

What does feel really different is that there are now lots of groups of men, hanging around drinking or sat on pavements together (not begging). Drugs took over the local nature paths and canal walks so now there are large groups of people out of their heads lying on old sofas at the locks, it's really grim. Women who used to cycle and run in these areas have more or less moved elsewhere or stopped.

More and more standard sized houses in low to middle income areas are becoming HMO's, yet with poor refuse organisation and not enough parking. I'm not exaggerating when I say there are literally trails of dog shit in the streets in many areas, too, which pretty much hangs in the air and the place stinks. That, and skunk.

We live in a decent part of town but it is coming closer, and I only have that perk due to inheriting my parents bungalow. More and more people are moving out.

On a walk to Sainsbury's yesterday two guys were holding onto a sign pole hovering over a bin. As I passed by one of them vomited into the bin and then spat/gobbed an inch from my feet - he didn't notice me particularly, but it was quite sudden or I'd have given them a wide berth.
This isn't unusual now.

I know people usually blame the cost of living and covid, etc, but this was definitely on the rise before. There is far more noise pollution as more buildings go up, usually industrial, and the roads are a nightmare. Infrastructure for actual people is decreasing.
That said, I don't think most of these people were thriving before, so it isn't a sudden change. It is as if a new kind of culture is growing, that doesn't care a damn about anything. Everything is vandalised or shat on. More and more windows are broken in properties close to the town centre, and I doubt most of these people were thriving before the pandemic hit.

Is this bad luck or is anything like it happening elsewhere?
We are definitely looking to move away.

In general though our culture has much lower expectations of public behaviour than it used to. Things like public drunkenness and urination are not really taboo any more.

Yes I agree with this. If the (non-existent) police took a zero tolerance approach to this things might improve a bit. Unfortunately now decent people just avoid certain areas which makes them decline even more.

I went on a UK holiday (Somerset) and was horrified at the amount of homeless people walking around like hallucinating zombies in the larger towns. It was definitely affecting local business and a large pub chain was so cold inside as the air con was on full blast the staff were wearing puffer jackets. We were puzzled by this and left as it was uncomfortable to sit in there. We went to a really lovely restaurant and got chatting to the bar man about the issue. He said the town was being ruined. My own town has homelessness but not to the level I saw.

I read your OP and it reminded me of a similar thread on Wigan from abut a year ago.. I don't know the town beyond the train station but it does sound grim.

I've noticed it where I am too.....always been a cheap but cheerful area of the North and a bit shabby but I get safe. And I liked it.

To me the main issue seems to be a large and well funded drug rehab which has huge numbers of addicts from around the country who come to our area. Fine, I'm not against this but our town is rife for drugs as it is. So fuck knows why they're brought here to appease the nimbys when dealers blatantly hang around their accommodation waiting for them.

Issue 2 and it pains me to say this because I have every sympathy but a fair few hotels have become accommodation for asylum seekers, primarily men. The refugee support groups do what they can but other than that they're left to their own devices. Like it or not but walking as a lone female past a huge gang of 20/ 30 blokes speaking a different language and sometimes shouting things others don't understand is intimidating. They're bored (( personally I think they should be allowed to work )) so hang round the streets all day in large groups. It's changed the dynamic of the area and I've had to change the way I behave as a result adding an extra 10 minutes onto my journey to work.

I also think both groups are being set up to fail. If we're going to accept people then we need to put in a lot more support, supervision and engagement in place running alongside that.

I'm in a small market town in east Anglia.

It isn't doing well and there isn't much money. Lots of worries about drugs and county lines and teenagers but it's mostly ok.

We're too small to have homeless shelters or anything like that, and the town has a lot of new estates with families on. They're building another school soon for all the new people.

The high street is pretty run down and has the usual "barbers" but has some decent shops as well.

Because there's a lot of new houses there's been a big effort by the council to get stuff going for families - a new scout unit, as part of the new school they built a dedicated scout and guide room. Etc etc.

I don’t think poverty is an excuse. There are many people who struggle who wouldn’t dream of behaving like that

This.
I can't just blame politics for this, it feels largely cultural.
What does surprise me is how most of what is visible seems to be coming from men in the 20-40 age bracket. Often groups of them, some suffering terrible problems and some who aren't. I see less women about here at the moment, although they're definitely living here! Less mixed groups than in previous years.

I don't know if there is any media influence in this as I don't really follow popular stuff. I really just do't know, but the change is really obvious.

As for police, they are often present but only in the town centre, they are generally benign and never move anyone on, even if they're causing a lot of trouble, god knows why.

The Tories are why there has been a lack of investment. Why the courts and police are inadequate. However, when it comes to not following basic social norms and rules, one man and his example above all must take the blame, Boris Johnson. His behaviour sets him apart from all other politicians, Tories included.

Agree. I think there are some lazy excuses. If you actually see it growing, it feels inexplicable.

Walked past a homeless man today, sleeping bag on the cold concrete floor, watching netflix on his ipad.

How can someone be homeless... yet have access to an iPad, a Netflix subscription and (presumably, since he's on the street) a 4 or 5g data plan? Those things just don't add up...

The thing about any of this is that there is no single reason. It's cumulative, which is also why it may be happening more in one area than another.

So saying "Tories" is not, in my opinion, inaccurate. But it's also lazy. They oversaw a lot of this, but there are nuances.

The list of things that I think have played a part include:

Brexit - created a culture of us vs them, plus (obviously) the economic impact.

Covid - people died, people lost trust in governments and other authorities leading to significant cultural changes, people lost trust in each other. Plus (obviously) the economic impact.

Financial crisis - fundementally changed a great many things in terms of economics and how the world works.

Shifting cultural norms that bring both positive and negative or where the positive can be a negative for certain groups, who might then resent it and/or suffer disproportionately as a result - eg, for a lot of men, particularly white working class men, they were still "ahead" of lots of other people and had options etc. But that's not necessarily the case any more and understandably, that has been hard for them with economic, social and cultural implications.

Globalisation - broadly a good thing but it comes with increased global communication and movement and sometimes there are downsides. eg I think it allows more amplification of bad things, it spreads conspiracy theories and mistrust. Plus people have a better sense of how "they" live which so often breeds dissatisfaction.

A rapidly growing global population putting increased pressure on infrastructure of all sorts - from food production to healthcare to education.

And I think what sits over all of thse (and probably a million other things) is that in the case of towns and town planning, people haven't caught up and certainly local councils and town planners haven't (but that's a whole different thread probably too).

I think we’re all a little to blame, as we all do online shopping, so high streets are in decline. Decent shops have closed ( , Top shop, Devon’s, Woolworths , FHW etc) to be Replaced by vape shops and bargain stores.

Western England town here. The suburbs (not really suburbs as it is not that big) are similar to before.

The centre is derelict. I can list which shops are still empty - Littlewoods, Woolworths, Our Price, Adams Clothes, Edinburgh Woollen Mill, 2 or 3 mobile phone shops and a few former independent shops. And Frankie and Benny's. There is a small precinct and EVERY SHOP is empty but the poor cafe keeps on going in the square in the middle!

The college and an absolutely vast building behind had teamed up with a university to have another campus. The plug was pulled so that building just gets vandalised.

Another huge and ugly building was pulled down, to great fanfare, but that left rubble and bits of concrete reinforcing metal just poking out of the ground. That area is just an untarmaced car park now.

I don't think there is a huge problem with drugs here but county lines are definitely running as a friend of my older child got caught up in it.

The family across the street who chucks their used nappies onto the pavement outside their door to pile up instead or putting them in a bin like everyone else. Are they doing this because they are low income or because of a conservative government? Or out of sheer laziness and disregard for how their actions affect others. You tell me.

My DH worked for a company in the 90s and they were upgrading a council estate in Yorkshire (Batley?). They had a couple of houses where they had to get waste clearance companies in to clear back gardens of nappies. HTF people can live like this I have no idea, I would have left them to wallow in their shit but unfortunately when taxpayers are there to pick up the bill why would these people care? It's not about poverty, it's about having standards. I think we actually need more judgement in some areas of life, not less.

Nice try, but those Labour councils have been absolutely starved of funds from central government over the last fourteen years. 'Levelling up' money went disproportionally to better off (Tory) areas.

Because an unlimited data plan costs £20 a month. Let's say £50 for a decice too. But where I live, in an average little surrey/london border village, a 1 bed flat costs over £1200 per month.

I do think there's a general sense of 'anything goes' now. No one bothers to even pretend to be polite. Dog ownership accelerating ran parallel to this, and where we are many are left alone for up to 12 hours barking. No one cares.

And a nod to the poster who mentioned agreeing about Wigan. It's a real mess now. The council are only interested in cash bungs from big business (Tesco, Lidl, etc). Growing dereliction, weeds everywhere and no push o enforce rules about decent behaviour.

We also have a really messed up issue here with loud vehicles. The noise pollution from that alone is phenomenal. It seems only one type of person's needs are important - and that's the loud, brash, littering contingent. No one addresses it or says boo. Neighbours close their doors and don't want to know, even when animals are clearly neglected.

I'm experiencing the same, OP. I have always felt safe in my home town- always walked around at night and rarely seen or experienced anything unpleasant. In the last few years the feel of the town has changed, not just at night but also during the day. There are drunks and druggies hanging around the centre, homeless people all over the place, men (usually drunk) shouting abuse at each other, at night cars full of young men parked all over the pavements in the town centre and giving filthy looks/swearing at people squeezing past their car. I had my car surrounded by a bunch of teenagers last weekend outside the supermarket at 8pm who blocked me from driving off. Cars and vans are being broken into all over my lovely estate at 5pm in the evening. Kids have been mugged for their trainers and phones. My BIL was attacked from behind by a group of teens who hit him over the head with some wood, kicked him once he fell and then stole whatever they could find in his pockets. In the splash park in town there are gangs of kids who push the little ones over, and have held kids faces in the streams of water to frighten them. The town is getting bigger due to huge amounts of new houses being built but the roads can't cope with the amount of extra traffic. There are feral gangs of kids everywhere, including a bunch of masked kids who speed around town on quad bikes and small motorbikes who have caused no end of issues. The violence between teenagers is horrendous in my DD's school. I love the town and there is so much good here, but we're now looking to move out into one of the surrounding villages.

We also have a really messed up issue here with loud vehicles. The noise pollution from that alone is phenomenal. It seems only one type of person's needs are important - and that's the loud, brash, littering contingent. No one addresses it or says boo. Neighbours close their doors and don't want to know, even when animals are clearly neglected.

The thing is that at best you'll get a load of abuse, at worst you'll get stabbed/shot.

I do think the shift of culture IS down to the previous governments insidious destruction of anything that makes a society. If absolutely everything is defunded from schools, health and social care, community spaces, jobs and benefits are not enough to actually have a reasonable standard of living, mental health support is virtually impossible to access etc etc. You now have a generation of young people who have grown up in absolute poverty with no safety nets from school, early interventions and grew up with basically an appalling standard of living and no hope of a different kind of life.
If no one gives a shit about you it’s pretty likely you grow up not giving a shit about anyone else either.

So what's going on with these men though?
What has changed with them, where have they all come from, as they weren't present like this before?

We're okay where we live but I have observed this as part of my job. It's not quite as bad as what you describe but I don't particularly like going into a couple of local towns and I'm in the affluent South East.

It's very sad. I do hope things improve under Labour.

Our small town has changed too. I no longer go into the town centre as it's full of men sitting outside pubs and cafes, speaking their own languages, smoking, and staring at women walking past.
It's not due to covid, like it or not its illegal immigration which has impacted the community here.
And with the street lights going off at midnight, it's pretty much a no-go area for women. I feel I'm living under a curfew.

See above