My town has really changed

[CatbellsOnTheSeashore]

In a confusing and not very pleasant way.

It was gradually changing for the worse before covid, but the pandemic seemed to accelerate it, and I am wondering if anyone else has noticed anything like this.

It became more insular whilst more populated, the population increased quite a bit over the past 5 yrs. More and more dereliction, low council maintenance and an influx of troubled people housed around the town centre, which is now a no-go zone. Areas surrounding have steadily grown worse also, as it seems to be spilling out.

What does feel really different is that there are now lots of groups of men, hanging around drinking or sat on pavements together (not begging). Drugs took over the local nature paths and canal walks so now there are large groups of people out of their heads lying on old sofas at the locks, it's really grim. Women who used to cycle and run in these areas have more or less moved elsewhere or stopped.

More and more standard sized houses in low to middle income areas are becoming HMO's, yet with poor refuse organisation and not enough parking. I'm not exaggerating when I say there are literally trails of dog shit in the streets in many areas, too, which pretty much hangs in the air and the place stinks. That, and skunk.

We live in a decent part of town but it is coming closer, and I only have that perk due to inheriting my parents bungalow. More and more people are moving out.

On a walk to Sainsbury's yesterday two guys were holding onto a sign pole hovering over a bin. As I passed by one of them vomited into the bin and then spat/gobbed an inch from my feet - he didn't notice me particularly, but it was quite sudden or I'd have given them a wide berth.
This isn't unusual now.

I know people usually blame the cost of living and covid, etc, but this was definitely on the rise before. There is far more noise pollution as more buildings go up, usually industrial, and the roads are a nightmare. Infrastructure for actual people is decreasing.
That said, I don't think most of these people were thriving before, so it isn't a sudden change. It is as if a new kind of culture is growing, that doesn't care a damn about anything. Everything is vandalised or shat on. More and more windows are broken in properties close to the town centre, and I doubt most of these people were thriving before the pandemic hit.

Is this bad luck or is anything like it happening elsewhere?
We are definitely looking to move away.

because of the OP's other post which said, in response to someone bringing up immigration, "At least 90% of these are local lads. The accent is what you might call a give away."

We have lots of people from Poland and the Ukraine where I live, and tbh yes many of them work hard and yes they respect the local culture. Absolutely these people, I think, enhance our country. What we are talking about is people who won’t integrate and whose values don’t match ours.

Why not have the courage of your convictions and say what you have been skirting round since you started posting? Are you speaking about muslim immigrants? What about the ones that aren’t immigrants, who are born and brought up here? Do you feel the same way about them?

Our criteria for letting people stay in the country needs to be a lot stricter. Third country processing would help. The more we allow people in the more people will come.

One of the things that would help is to join up with other European countries and use a collective 3rd country for processing all claims for asylum in Europe. People would need to claim asylum as soon as they arrived in a third country. This would stop dangerous journeys as there would be zero benefit in getting in a boat in Calais to come to the UK. This would pool resources. It would allow for a spreading out of the asylum claimants throughout participating countries. It would also strip out or much reduce economic migrants.

But Britain and Europe cannot keep absorbing people fleeing because of the failure of their own countries - it will only get worse

I feel the same about anyone who lives here and doesn’t integrate into British society. If you live somewhere you have a responsibility to integrate and become part of that society to keep it strong. Are you saying Muslims don’t do that? I have certainly never said that. You seem very prone to putting your own prejudices on to other people.

The grooming / rape gangs in Rotherham were second and third generation Muslim immigrants. So she’d be well within her rights not to think too kindly of them.

What the hell? I’m 3 generation foreign from (defined in British law at the time) terrorists, do you not think kindly to me or would you need to see my skin before answering that?

I actually think Rochdale is on the up, the new shopping street and the renovated Town Hall look great and are constantly busy. The old part is a dive though for sure, it needs flattening.

Goodness me.

I do hope that having a go at a middle aged woman (Probably a Karen by your metric) who has had plenty of direct and indirect experience of the way this country is being shredded by venal, self serving politicians and policies has made you feel better.

I mean, obviously your agenda is very much "if you're not with us, you're against us" and "just piss off if you're not happy".

Everything I have brought up is evidence of worldwide malaise and corruption. And it starts at the top, and our government, of whatever stripe, cares not one jot for the people, unless some financial advantage can be leveraged out of appearing to be so.

Yes, I am obsolete. Nothing to offer in terms of net contribution because of local and national policies that line the pockets of corporations and kills independent business. Too old to employ, my only value is to my elderly parents to fight their corner against reams of bureaucracy and willfully ignorant "services".

No other country would have me, you're absolutely right, because I'm no longer an economically productive unit.

Patriotism and nationalism breed fascism, which is clear from some of the posts on this thread. The attitude of "good riddance " towards people who have tried and tried to succeed, yet find themselves floundering is quite chilling.

There's been alot of handwringing on this thread about disenfranchised young white men. Well, apparently disenfranchised women should just get over themselves and practise tugging their forelocks eh? As should any group who find themselves being kicked when they're down I suppose. But not the young white men of course, supremely deserving of support due to the accident of their birth.

And all the while that we squabble over scraps, and identity politics, those in power offshore a few more billion and laugh at the collateral damage.

Keep waving that flag - even when it's the only means you have to fend off the Winter chill.

Thank you 💐@EmeraldRoulette

Cardiff is like this now. Spice heads in the once bustling town centre which now looks derelict. Important cultural buildings such as the museum in disrepair and with mangy exhibits (literally - the wooly mammoth has mange). Constant low level street crime and anti-social behaviour. People look down, grey and depressed. Just an air of unkempt despair hangs over the place.

There was a point in the late 90s after devolution where Cardiff had such a buzz around it and a sense of pride. So sad to see what's happened to it since.

I actually think Reform could potentially do quite well in south wales, never thought I'd say that as it's been Labour since Labour's inception but there's almost a grim resentment and realisation that Labour has not done anything for the area.

Well, apparently it's easier and preferable to insult people than to point out that this wonderful green and pleasant land is badly let down by it's institutions, both currently and historically.

Keep it coming if you wish - I've taken much worse. This naughty child obviously is in great need of your patriotic wisdom.

Sure.

From my perspective and observation, the run down town centres, derelict shops and undesirables in town centres is proportional to the local council's war on motorists which make it harder for motorists to access town centres, so they go to out of town retail parks/supermarkets instead leaving a vacuum in the town centre which causes the shops to close. It's happened in all our local town/city centres and previously attractive/popular shopping precincts/streets in our towns that are now nothing but charity shops, betting shops and money laundering places. It's not a coincidence that the towns and villages who've not waged war on motorists, i.e. no traffic calming, no stupid one way systems causing congestion, affordable/free car parks still have a pretty attractive and vibrant "High Street" where the undesirables aren't as noticeable because they're in a minority.

Who is ‘them’? All Muslim immigrants or the grooming types?

And yes, it’s pretty obvious who she was referring to.

I asked her why then she would have so little self respect to stay in somewhere that she feels is such a shithole and you say it is because her support network is here and she has elderly family.
That may, or may not be the case but even if it is-so what?

‘May or not be the case?’
‘So what?’
What an unpleasant attitude you have.

Some people here seem to want a dictator state like N Korea where we are not allowed to criticise our country. Er, no thanks.

You got it . . lol

Downham Way . Grove Park end.

I actually think Reform will win the next election or will team up with the Conservatives and be in power. People are fed up, our resources inc money is getting scarce. As the saying goes, charity begins at home.

We need to bring back the pride, even if it means faking it til we make it. We need to be more stable and focused on schools, in home life. We need to cut out shit like “you can be anything you want to be” which according to my son’s Life and morality teacher includes a train🤦‍♀️. We should replace RE lessons with British culture lessons, kids should be able to recount tales of kings and Queens, of King Arthur etc. We need to encourage and fund the arts more and value imagination- STEM subjects and the arts and humanities need putting back on an equal footing.

We need to make it more attractive to shop
in shops, incentivise people to go into the high street. Tax Amazon etc to the hilt with a sales tax on online sales for large businesses. We need to get people back in the pubs - for centuries the hub of communities. We need to make sure new estates come with community facilities, a pub, a shop, a hall.

Access To social media needs reducing for kids.

I value the idea of national service (not necessarily military - but something highly disciplined, everyone needs to do it, from all
backgrounds to get people mixing and understanding the need to work towards common goals.

My dad was a post-war Displaced Person. In those days, people were kept in holding camps for about 3 yrs. Those who had seen military service were in camps run by the British Army and were used to clear up "bomb damage" in Continental Europe. (For years, I imagined that they were only clearing up rubble. It was a while before the penny finally dropped.)

After about 3 yrs, Dad and the others were taken by ship to England and placed in a camp there. Further processing and an Alien Card was issued.

It was made clear that any bad behaviour would mean instant deportation. They were allowed to stay in the UK provided they signed a contract to work wherever they were needed for 3 yrs.

Dad and some others were then transferred to a former Bevan Boys' Hostel in Scotland. He had to present his Alien Card at the local police station once a week right up until about 1963, I think. (I found his card after he died.) It showed any changes of address and circumstances, including his marriage to my mum.

I don't understand why a similar system couldn't be put in place now.

Bloody hell its always Muslim grooming gangs. Those same people were silent when the Church of England was exposed for covering up for a prolific paedophile.

Your kids should be proud of you and happy that they are your child. In fact they could not exist in any other family, as they are now. How they look, think and act is downstream of you and the generations before you.

Everything they have is from you genetically and culturally, and by extension your extended family, your community all have a role in shaping this.

You should be proud of this if you are English.

@Feelingathomenow

We need to make it more attractive to shop in shops, incentivise people to go into the high street. Tax Amazon etc to the hilt with a sales tax on online sales for large businesses. We need to get people back in the pubs - for centuries the hub of communities. We need to make sure new estates come with community facilities, a pub, a shop, a hall.

Exactly that.

Stop the council's war on motorists, high council car park charges, one way systems, traffic calming and access only roads that actually cause traffic congestion. Attract the drivers who prefer to go to out of town retail parks and supermarkets back into towns.

Reduce business rates for town centre bricks n mortar retail/hospitality and increase business rates for warehouses and out of town retail/supermarkets to balance the revenue lost. At the moment per square metre, a town centre shop pays more business rates than an out of town supermarket - it's crazy.

Enforce planning permissions so that if a developer includes shops, schools, pub, GP surgery, etc in a housing development, then they are fined heavily if it doesn't happen within say 5 years.

Incentivise and encourage conversion of town centre premises into housing, particularly unused "flats" above shops, where councils often refuse planning permission and cause difficulties with building regulations etc.

We need to get "normal" people back into town centres to help push out the undesirables, crime, etc.

Not really, -I assume you are referring to Justin Welby who has resigned - so what do you want people to say?

I think calling racism and shutting down any conversation around migration doesn't help keep the conversation open and honest. At a time where net migration figures continue to grow and little in the way of public resources and housing to accommodate any population growth it is something that needs to be discussed in a factual and neutral manner.

Would you tell Spaniards to put up and shut up about the Costa Del Blackpool crowd that have taken over parts of their country without learning the language, contributing to the economy or supporting local businesses?

There is an undercurrent of racism in some quarters that needs calling out. But it can be shut down with facts and figures and by letting people speak. We run the very real risk of seeing a rise from the right by closing down discussion, which is something nobody wants!

What an odd take on things. Yes my kids are proud of me, but it’s nothing specifically to do with being born here. Yes, I am a function of my environment, as is everyone. But it’s a bit of a reach to say my kids are proud of me because I was born in the UK! Because that’s specifically what we are discussing.

That's not what they're saying. They're saying their community is the UK and yours and their history is wrapped up in that. Being proud of being British is no different to being proud of being from Wigan or proud of the school you went to or proud to be a teacher. They're all communities that are sum parts of the whole of you.