My town has really changed

[CatbellsOnTheSeashore]

In a confusing and not very pleasant way.

It was gradually changing for the worse before covid, but the pandemic seemed to accelerate it, and I am wondering if anyone else has noticed anything like this.

It became more insular whilst more populated, the population increased quite a bit over the past 5 yrs. More and more dereliction, low council maintenance and an influx of troubled people housed around the town centre, which is now a no-go zone. Areas surrounding have steadily grown worse also, as it seems to be spilling out.

What does feel really different is that there are now lots of groups of men, hanging around drinking or sat on pavements together (not begging). Drugs took over the local nature paths and canal walks so now there are large groups of people out of their heads lying on old sofas at the locks, it's really grim. Women who used to cycle and run in these areas have more or less moved elsewhere or stopped.

More and more standard sized houses in low to middle income areas are becoming HMO's, yet with poor refuse organisation and not enough parking. I'm not exaggerating when I say there are literally trails of dog shit in the streets in many areas, too, which pretty much hangs in the air and the place stinks. That, and skunk.

We live in a decent part of town but it is coming closer, and I only have that perk due to inheriting my parents bungalow. More and more people are moving out.

On a walk to Sainsbury's yesterday two guys were holding onto a sign pole hovering over a bin. As I passed by one of them vomited into the bin and then spat/gobbed an inch from my feet - he didn't notice me particularly, but it was quite sudden or I'd have given them a wide berth.
This isn't unusual now.

I know people usually blame the cost of living and covid, etc, but this was definitely on the rise before. There is far more noise pollution as more buildings go up, usually industrial, and the roads are a nightmare. Infrastructure for actual people is decreasing.
That said, I don't think most of these people were thriving before, so it isn't a sudden change. It is as if a new kind of culture is growing, that doesn't care a damn about anything. Everything is vandalised or shat on. More and more windows are broken in properties close to the town centre, and I doubt most of these people were thriving before the pandemic hit.

Is this bad luck or is anything like it happening elsewhere?
We are definitely looking to move away.

It’s going to be very interesting to see how this steady decline progresses over the next 5-10 years in these towns. What bothers me is how year on year this situation is becoming the norm for a whole generation, young children growing up in horrible rough areas regardless of whether their parents are decent or drug addicts they’re still living and seeing this grim reality and knowing no different. Their expectations and dreams are going to be shaped by their surroundings, it’s very sad that this is how the country is now for too many.

In my town (relatively deprived for the county, seaside), the picture is mixed. Walking through this morning, reasonably clean, no visible asb (at 10 am at least) and a decent number of shoppers. One of the long term empty shops is being cleared out and wooden shelving taken inside - a hopeful sign. Plenty of people here with me in the m&s cafe.
But shoplifting has become endemic, to the point that all the bigger shops have blocked off at least one of their exit points. Like most seaside towns, we have a lot of properties belonging to rehab charities and the station area, never salubrious, gives a shocking and embarrassing first impression of the town - 24 hour open drug dealing, asb and fighting. Until tennish years ago there was no street homelessness at all and now it is very visible.

Some British culture and values off the top of my head

Fairness - manifested in many different ways, including our tendency to queue rather than shove our way to the front
Justice applied equally to all, no one above the law
Equality for women in society and the home
Politeness and respect for other people
Love for animals & abhorrence of animal cruelty
Reverence for nature and the countryside. Walking is a favourite British pastime.
Charity and public service

A lot of these things are in decline.

I think there are two approaches to this - the left wing has this very paternalistic attitude that appears to take the view that people living in shit towns couldn't possibly be responsible for any part of the shitness, and it's all due to underlying social ills/lack of funding/need to understand some trauma. Whereas the right wing expects a bit more personal responsibility and that there's a limit to how much you can blame the wider society for things being shit. And I think that's right - it's very easy to give people a cop out and say it's all shit because the Tories implemented austerity. Well, fine. But you can still put your rubbish in the bin even with austerity, and there's no excuse for living in a shithole. No matter what the reasons, your neighbours shouldn't have to put up with it, and wider society shouldn't have to bend over backwards to sort it out.

I think the loss of censure and shame is generally a bad thing - people should be ashamed of bad behaviour in public. And I agree that the loss of a strong male identity is not good for wider society.

I also think this is absolutely crazy. We absolutely should be gatekeeping NHS services, with the exception of vaccinations and other interventions deemed necessary for public health.

@shockeditellyou I'm actually neither right wing or left wing - but agree on this-

This!i
also think social media has given young people a distorted view of what realistically is attainable in life.
I think many give up on their aspirations when they realise the hill to climb can be a steep one and with many obstacles.

Absolutely - and largely champagne socialists, there’s a glut of people on here that probably live in areas that are completely unaffected by these problems, have an idealised “just be kind” attitude, sign a few petitions, recycle some yoghurt pots and spend all their lives without any real comprehension of reality for much of the country. Yet somehow they think they know how issues should be solved and how people should react to things that are actual reality for them rather than a few soundbite a on social media. You would think, as they all seem to love all things French they would have learned how shouting “let them eat cake” typically plays out!

One thing that could really help towns is taxing online purchases and reducing business rates for shops. Free parking would also help.

I lived there in the 1960s to the 1980s It was a lovely country town with good markets and a very nice river. The shops were all occupied and booming.
St John's old railway station was very quaint. I did my nursing training at Bedford Hospital in 1981.
I went back there a couple of years ago to see a relative and I'm never going back. It looked like the apocalypse happened.

Yes, I would like to see much tighter controls around kids access to social media

Corbyn, anyone?

The personal responsibility is all well and good, but it's cause and effect. People, at least many, react to their surroundings.

If cutbacks have led to the streets being cleaned less, bins emptied less, parks and green spaces not being maintained, then it leads to less pride being taken. It leads to a culture of people dumping more rubbish and then things get worse. It doesn't excuse asb or crime but it contributes towards it. Same as cutbacks to the police.

Policies have consequences.

But its cultural as well. People play videos on public transport with no headphones. If they're that ignorant then they'll throw their rubbish on the floor without a care in the world as well. Manners needs to be on the school curriculum.

I too feel that the distorted filtered image social media projects has some part to play in this. Perhaps seeing YouTubers earring lots of money and living life in such a materialistic way creates a sense of futility that real life doesn’t equate to what they’re seeing on screen. It’s an extreme form of escapism and if that’s all you’ve really known since being a young teen then it’s difficult to shift that mindset.

In 00’s movies, hackers and gamers tended to be portrayed as reclusive loners with messy bedrooms living off fast food, energy drinks and snacks. Maybe this has now manifested into the mainstream thus meaning any decline outside of peoples immediate circle is widely ignored?

A lot of it is down to the 'No Judgement' feeling that seems to be on the rise.

An Op may come on to describe some bad behaviour and most of the replies will tell her not to judge, that she may only be seeing a snapshot or some other such soft shite.

If a child is naughty in school or in public, posters will encourage the view that it isn't simply a child being naughty-they will have some syndrome or other and shouldn't be judged-even if they are putting others in danger or spoiling an experience such as a meal out.

Bring back some judging and shame because some people can't behave well unless an element of fear provokes them into doing so.

Of course, it won't happen because the prevailing view is that there must be no judgement. We've seen that on this thread and the same dangerous eejits will be along to repeat it before the thread is full.

If only they could be shamed for their views-views which means society has fallen apart.

Kids have been mollycoddled for decades and grow up with no boundaries.

Boomers/maybe Gen X probably the last generation to grow up with firm parenting and a societal understanding that actions have consequences. You feared the police. You feared your parents. You respected elders. Not that this was without it's issues but that's how it generally was.

The landscape has changed since. Liberalism took over, the traditional family unit has been eroded, 'human rights' has become a synonym for a 'do what you want' society and the police have been neutered and are more fearful of 'the youth' than they are of them.

It's like a science fiction now from 30 years ago of a dystopia future of anarchy.

Sounds like my seaside town in the 90s, to be honest. The holidaymakers dried up and the place went to ruin. Boarding houses turned into bed sets and "undesirables" such as newly released prisoners where encouraged to settle here upon release. But of course, no additional council nor police support so it just caused huge amounts of anti-social behaviour, thefts, robberies, street crime, drug dealing, drunkenness, properties being wrecked and burned out, etc. An entire part of the, once very nice, town basically turned into a no go area for locals. Entire popular shopping streets closed down with just a few dodgy shops remaining. So I don't believe it's due to covid. Our town was wrecked 30 years ago! Perhaps that kind of thing is just spreading more these days as the undesirables "infect" other towns.

Yeah some towns, cities and villages were wilfully destroyed by Margaret Thatcher in the 80s. Communities ruined and no such thing as society and an individual and materialistic society emerged. A dependence on benefits and drug addiction became rampant.

Many places thrived. However, post 2008 crash/2010s austerity/Covid/unprecedented immigration levels, most of the country is now going through what the losers of Thatcherism did then. The places struggling then are just well used to it now.

Pardon.
Our children are well-mannered and perform well in school. This has been achieved without the use of corporal punishment, such as belts, canes, slippers, standing in the corner, shouting, or making threats.
It’s also a fact that a significant portion of taxpayers' money is being used to support the baby boomer generation, who, along with late Gen X, own 80% of all property in the UK. Hence the extortionate cost of the remaining 20%.
They also take up a disproportional amount of public services such as social care, and NHS.

There is no money to socially regen the towns when it has to be given elsewhere.

It's so many things in my opinion, many of which have been mentioned here.

Lack of respect for authority is one - my relative is a teacher and has to put up with all kinds of behaviour from their students far out of the reach of what they should be doing ie teaching. But they are unable to punish or sanction properly and the kids know that. On the other hand when you see politicians breaking their own rules and a serving police officer commits the worst kind of crime why would you respect them?

I've heard the phrase 'poverty of aspiration' and to me it sums up so much of it - I've seen it first hand and once someone is in that cycle of chaotic living/not working/drugs or whatever there isn't much hope. I know someone like this and I dont know how they get out of bed each day with nothing to look forward to, in fact they often dont.

It's easy to blame the government/society etc but I think there's a real lack of personal responsibility as well that wasn't there when I was growing up. You see it in everything from the obesity crisis to social media - in fact I think social media and our 24 hour access to the wider world through the internet is another problem in itself.

Yes we don’t hear alot about his covid dinner party on here do we?

If I’ve got my facts right I think my ex went to to the school he wouldn’t send his son to

I mean who on earth needs kids from mc families at a school anyway ? 🤣

How awful and how sad. Not how I think of lively towns like Wigan and indeed Bolton at all.
I should think the causes are complex. Shopping centres being replaced by online deliveries and out of town stores can't be helping town centres. Also the spreading of housing estates without any infrastructure to support them means less community feel and a bigger sense of over crowding and pollution.
None of this really explains al the throwing up in the streets or failing to clear up dog poo though. That seems to be a thing that takes over largish towns and is very difficult to stop once it has started.

If I felt as you do about a country that I lived in, I would have more self respect than to stay in it.

Grab some self respect and get yourself away from a place that you despise. Who on earth thinks so little of themselves that they will stay somewhere that they have such contempt for.

Frightened to leave are you? Or would no-one else have you?

Look forward to you telling us all how you have a very important job that would be welcomed the world over but your dear old Aunty Fanny who can only get about on three sticks needs you to stay. Or some such balls.

I just don't get why you'd be proud of something you can't control that was an accident of birth? Nationality is just a fact, I'm as neutral on it as I am on my height or hair colour