My town has really changed

[CatbellsOnTheSeashore]

In a confusing and not very pleasant way.

It was gradually changing for the worse before covid, but the pandemic seemed to accelerate it, and I am wondering if anyone else has noticed anything like this.

It became more insular whilst more populated, the population increased quite a bit over the past 5 yrs. More and more dereliction, low council maintenance and an influx of troubled people housed around the town centre, which is now a no-go zone. Areas surrounding have steadily grown worse also, as it seems to be spilling out.

What does feel really different is that there are now lots of groups of men, hanging around drinking or sat on pavements together (not begging). Drugs took over the local nature paths and canal walks so now there are large groups of people out of their heads lying on old sofas at the locks, it's really grim. Women who used to cycle and run in these areas have more or less moved elsewhere or stopped.

More and more standard sized houses in low to middle income areas are becoming HMO's, yet with poor refuse organisation and not enough parking. I'm not exaggerating when I say there are literally trails of dog shit in the streets in many areas, too, which pretty much hangs in the air and the place stinks. That, and skunk.

We live in a decent part of town but it is coming closer, and I only have that perk due to inheriting my parents bungalow. More and more people are moving out.

On a walk to Sainsbury's yesterday two guys were holding onto a sign pole hovering over a bin. As I passed by one of them vomited into the bin and then spat/gobbed an inch from my feet - he didn't notice me particularly, but it was quite sudden or I'd have given them a wide berth.
This isn't unusual now.

I know people usually blame the cost of living and covid, etc, but this was definitely on the rise before. There is far more noise pollution as more buildings go up, usually industrial, and the roads are a nightmare. Infrastructure for actual people is decreasing.
That said, I don't think most of these people were thriving before, so it isn't a sudden change. It is as if a new kind of culture is growing, that doesn't care a damn about anything. Everything is vandalised or shat on. More and more windows are broken in properties close to the town centre, and I doubt most of these people were thriving before the pandemic hit.

Is this bad luck or is anything like it happening elsewhere?
We are definitely looking to move away.

Christ! This has to be one of the most depressing threads on MN ever.

I know what some people consider to be British culture, obviously. But are we talking culture or nationalism here? Nationalism comes with an undertone of superiority and a drive to dominate.

Much of our achievements have come at grave cost to swathes of people at the bottom of the pile, both indigenous to here, and in other countries. I find it difficult to have pride in things soaked in blood and misery.

You said yourself it's a worldwide issue, perhaps we should be adjusting our attitudes as a species overall?

Dear God. Another rant about people having things like more than one TV channel. Obviously we should look after people and some people need to be on benefits and buy-shock, horror-new clothes. Surely the focus should be to find WHY people are on benefits and help them get off them. Training, qualifications, mental health support, whatever.

Yes there probably are some people professionally on benefits, somehow we have to get them out to work, assuming there is work to be had.

Some of them most likely will have been in the army as it is often seen as an escape from poverty.

so why go you think they are in that position? Personal failure?the Government not putting money into looking after young white men? Mental health issues from a wide variety of backgrounds? Why do you think these young white men are on the streets in the first place? Lack of suitable housing? Why do you think a person trying to survive on the streets would take drugs. Why are these people not being comfortably housed in hotels with meals provided and lots of agencies and volunteers looking after them? Why are human rights lawyers not falling over themselves to make sure these young white men do not have their human rights violated?

I do think they are comfortably housed in council housing, bedsits and cheap rentals, of which Bedford has many.

And plenty of agencies looking after them and providing them with free food and clothes.

But that, together with no chance of getting prosecuted for shoplifting together with what they get given by well-intentioned but misguided shoppers, just keeps them trapped in their way of life.

Criminal gangs targeting the area and the cheap ready available of drugs obviously a huge factor. There’s also a prison in the centre of Bedford so perhaps some of them are in the area in the first place as they’ve been inside and then released.

On a practical level, OP be selfish for yourself and your family. If its still pleasant where you are but you can see it moving closer, dont wait until it engulfs your street and your house becomes unsaleable. Get out now and ahead of the curve.

I live very close to you and don't go into Wigan very often but haven't seen that much of what you have described. Yeh the town centre is run down but I don't feel it's as bad as you've made out.
However I purposely never go into Scholes, Ince etc so maybe that's why. There doesn't seem to be a huge influx of illegal immigrants. Standish did have a population for a while when they were housing people at the Brittania but since that stopped they've moved on to be housed elsewhere

This is so interesting @Seekingstyle .
of the multitude of contributing factors discussed on this thread, I have never heard this before but rings true. Could you say more about it?

*edited to correct a typo

Ah ok, which people were adversely affected by our arts?

we could say the Industrial Revolution-had winners, arguably narrowing the poverty gap, leading to universal education, greater rights for women etc. workers rights, health and safety etc.

is the internet a good or bad thing? What about the covid jab?

The UK has a culture of innovation. That is why we innovate so much.

Our arts are world renowned- because we have a culture of experimentation.

We have a culture of experimentation, not being afraid to stand against the world. This is why we weren’t afraid to stand against Hitler, why we sent our navy to disrupt the transatlantic slave trade. It’s why we built the most successful empire at a time when most of Europe were empire building.

Unfortunately many would like to see that culture of independence shut down in favour of globalisation.

It sounds even worse than Ipswich - and that place has really gone downhill. It makes me sad because there is so much potential there - so many historic buildings, the beautiful waterfront, wonderful parks - but every day there is more bad news about shops closing down, crime rising, more traffic chaos etc and nobody ever does anything about it.

Can the flag shagging 'Britain is amazing' brigade bugger off back to Tufton st or Reform HQ or wherever and leave the rest of us to discuss what the fundamental issues are and why places like Wigan have got as they are. Its all very well talking about high end culture and science and history etc and yes the UK has plenty in the past to offer in these areas, but at the moment it's simply not amazing - maybe if you are well housed , have plenty of money , can live somewhere nice and have plenty of holidays out the UK then it's ok - for many it simply isn't ok - towns that are ghettos of disorder or closed down, non functioning services, lack of opportunity and investment due to many reasons, Brexit included - the Tory's in the last 14 years have spent all their time campaigning and simply not governing for all - is it better than living in Iraq or Syria, ? Almost certainly - but the idea that everyone all over the world is desparate to come here to live is an absolute fallacy - people are keen to come here from struggling countries due to language/ relatives/ knowledge of culture via history and music etc /being seen as a soft touch or fed a load of bullshit by criminal elements within their own countries ( some are British comment too) in the case of illegal migration - there are many reasons- when we lived in Copenhagen and my H is in Germany a lot for business - are they desparate to come here to live? No - as most have said to me - ok for a short trip- usually London, Edinburgh , Liverpool etc - lifestyle wise most think it's shit. Just because you say it's amazing and think everyone else should be saying so - really doesn't make it so - and for anyone like the poor OP I think you are going to have a hard job to push the 'Britain is amazing' agenda- at the moment it isn't - and not was it under the Tory's if anyone try's to blame the gvt who have inherited an absolute shower of shit from a load of second rate spivs -

Much of our achievements have come at grave cost to swathes of people at the bottom of the pile, both indigenous to here, and in other countries. I find it difficult to have pride in things soaked in blood and misery

It’s like you don’t understand what it was like to live in a world without access to modern technology or modern medicine. And you show your ignorance right here.

What do you suppose indigenous life was like? It was random violence from neighboring tribes, early death from preventable disease and half your children dead before they hit puberty.

Stop with your a-historical, handwringing nonsense.

@Howldens @Seekingstyle that post is absolutely correct- I'm originally from an area totally like that - those areas are rife with 'inverse' snobbery- taking umbrage at anyone who moves away, has got on or has done ok for themselves- as you heard with Brexit the number of posts I saw on Twitter (as it was ) about 'I don't care if it makes your business struggle/ go under- I want to bring you down to our level' or even better 'I don't want the kids to move away or have the opportunity to live abroad- I want them here within a few miles' - it's everything to the lowest level for many in these places- their lives are a bit shit so they want everyone else's life to be shit and 'small' -no aspirations, take the piss out of anyone who has any ambition/talent/ etc --

This guy walks around the roughest parts of the North and Midlands for his YouTube channel:

https://www.youtube.com/@theallornothingpodcastwith4442/videos

Why are these people not being comfortably housed in hotels with meals provided and lots of agencies and volunteers looking after them

You are so biased by your clear agenda that you are ignoring my clarification of how asylum seekers are housed. These hotels are far from comfortable. Many are shitholes which were falling apart before the government booked block contracts for asylum seekers. They are often awful and the food disgusting and inedible. Even asylum-seekers struggle to eat the same slop every day, esp if they are not used to the food. Like it or not, they are not meant to be treated like criminals. And even ‘grateful’ people have their limits. They are human beings just like you.

And I can assure you that wonderful human rights lawyers are not swooping in to save them. The lawyers I have dealt with in this field are often not that great or bright and certainly not responsive, so cases drag on for years and years.

But you don’t want to hear that as your anti-immigrant views are easier for you to maintain.

There is lots to sort out in this country. Including uncontrolled immigration. But focussing on this one issue is at its best short-sighted.

Ah, so it’s all their fault, there’s an abundance of social housing! I see! So what’s your solution. My solution is to take care of British people first. We need to increase the expectations people have of themselves. If they’re growing up in a country that’s telling them that the country is shit and that they are the privileged ones (and they will understand privilege in its ordinary way - not some convoluted definition that sociology academics devise) whilst they’re struggling to eat and house themselves what message do you think this sends. We need to concentrate on raising these people up, make aspiration a good thing in these communities. I went to a rough school. We are talking about a school in the early 1990s where the boys carried knives, someone was raped at school, someone was expelled for bringing an air riflle, the first girl who got pregnant in our year was in the second year (now year 8) teachers basically told us not to apply to anything but old polys and do vocational courses. I was the most academic in our year, one teacher hit the roof when I said I’d applied to red bricks to study law!

Everything is about raising up minority groups, yet year after year the majority of academic under achievers are white working class males.

Who says I 'can't argue' against your points? I've simply got better things to do than argue the toss with someone who spouts the sort of claptrap you have in several of your posts. Particularly given the nonsense you spouted about anxiety.

This teacher’s reaction was ridiculous!!!!!!!

I think it’s you who has their own narrative. Last year my family and I travelled to London, we get intercontinental points so we staying in an IHG hotel near King’s Cross. A nice hotel in a quiet area. We walked into the hotel, lovely lobby, sat down on the velvet sofa whilst DH checked in. Got a glass of water.

As we waited for the lift we were joined by a young boy with a push bike! We looked round for his parents. No where to be seen.

Went up in the lift, got out on the floor below ours by mistake. It was basically a street party in the corridors - there was obviously cooking going on in the rooms with a “security guard” sat on a plastic chair scrolling through his phone.

That lovely hotel was being used to house asylum seekers.

I live in a coastal area. There’s a real issue with many hotels being commandeered by the home office to house asylum seekers. These are nice hotels. Not run down hostels. It’s displacing tourists, tourists who spend lots of money in the local economy. It’s having a very negative impact.

So I have very real experience thank you of where immigrants are being housed. Nothing to do with an agenda, it’s reality.

Yes it was, but unfortunately not isolated!

This is a very interesting thread but it is a pity it's been derailed by bunfighting rather than people sharing their experiences, insights and theories as was happening earlier.

I think it's actually illustrative though - even MN, which was never fluffy on AIBU, has been far more deliberately unpleasant than it was years ago. Everyone seems angrier now.

I am currently at the house I grew up in, northern city. The house is in a poor postcode and a mile or so one side is an area fairly infamous for its issues (crime, disorder and streets of rubbish), blamed on immigration. Around a mile to the other side the area is just locally fairly well known and has equal crime, and what looks like fly tipping on most gardens, streets, but is the local residents' rubbish. Both areas schools would not be a preference of the majority. This area is solidly full of locals, majority with a history of family in the areas. No difference in outcome despite disparity in ethnicity. Unusually the house I am in is on a lovely road, no rubbish, respect for neighbours, but actually has a range of ethnic backgrounds- I recognise all are private homes which may make a difference.
I have no answer as to how this happened, but it's happened across what could be described as differing cultural backgrounds, in different cultural areas, so feel it's British society as a whole that has changed perhaps slowly but we now open our eyes, perhaps revisit areas, and see a massive change from years ago.
As a quite young child I shamefully dropped my bus ticket on the street and was immediately stopped by an oldish (to me anyway) man and told to pick it up - I was so embarrassed and did do as asked, hoping he didn't know my school uniform, or my parents (never did it again either!). I would never nowadays dare to suggest any child picked up its rubbish. Last year, in a large shopping centre I saw a group of kids between around 11-15 running through and spitting on clothes and furniture in as many shops as they could - frightening folk and effing and blinding and threatening the security trying to get them to leave. I stayed well out of the way - it still baffles me as to why this was entertaining for the kids as there seemed no rhyme or reason to it - not even lifting stuff to use or sell (not that that's ok of course).
It's not going to change back any time soon - I'm not sure where will be safe for my grandkids in future let alone nice to live. I have lately started having to go to York a few days per month and don't see my home town's issues at all there, though obviously I only see limited parts of it - but maybe we can have hope for some areas.

It is, but it's people describing their lived experiences. Life in this country at the present time is depressing and I think lots of people are suffering low level (or even not so low level) depression and anxiety because of it. In turn I think that leads us to follow a selfish path to try and find our way through it, we want to pull up our drawbridges, think of ourselves. We see the dilapidated state of our towns and cities so don't want to go there which leads to shops closing so even less reason to go there and they fall into more decay. As a population we are tired, depressed, many of us are poor because of COL crisis, and we see nothing getting better.

Agree with your opinions on this - I also feel 15 is very different from 11 - surprised these 2 age groups are hanging out together

MN is very left leaning, and the left despises patriotism in any form.