Page 30 | The teacher from Batley is still in hiding

Nicetrynigel · 2024-12-03T05:55:13+00:00

[[https://neilwilby.com/2024/03/24/batley-grammar-school-teacher-felt-totally-isolated-abandoned-and-suicidal-due-to-inadequate-support-from-relevant-agencies/ Teacher Batley]] His life ruined because a bunch of thugs decided they didn't like what he was teaching in his RE lesson. This and the Labour MP's request for bhalsphey laws against those of the Abrahamic faith have made me concerned. People should be free to offer an view against another's religion. It's scary that we are being a country where people thing being offended gives them a right to made death threats.

Galdownunder · 05/12/2024 23:55

I mean even if it is offensive and blasphemous- so what? Is their belief so fragile it can’t bear being laughed at?

Rhinomania · 06/12/2024 00:51

Galdownunder · 05/12/2024 23:55

I mean even if it is offensive and blasphemous- so what? Is their belief so fragile it can’t bear being laughed at?

Completely agree - they’re offended, so what?

I’m offended on a daily basis, I don’t expect the world to stop or change.

ArtfulBee · 06/12/2024 01:05

ToWhitToWhoo · 05/12/2024 22:31

Nowadays, yes, But that 'Please to remember' poem includes a verse, now rarely sung for obvious reasons, but quite common in the past, (Warning: it's pretty offensive):

A penny loaf to feed the Pope
A farthing o' cheese to choke him.
A pint of beer to rinse it down.
A fagot of sticks to burn him.
Burn him in a tub of tar.
Burn him like a blazing star.
Burn his body from his head.
Then we'll say ol' Pope is dead.
Hip hip hoorah!
Hip hip hoorah hoorah!

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Yeah, that's not on in this day and age.

Will need to be updated to a "bundle" of sticks.

(I'm being facetious and yours was an interesting post 😉)

Ovalframes · 06/12/2024 08:15

The teacher made the mistake of thinking everyone is living in the 21st century.

quantumbutterfly · 06/12/2024 08:30

StandingSideBySide · 05/12/2024 22:12

Anti Catholicism was rife
Technically people hated Catholics well before the Gunpowder plot but they just wouldn’t conform and change their religion. They practiced in hiding and paid their fines not to attend c of e churches.
James was a bit too lenient on the Catholics at the time ( his wife was Catholic ) so it’s thought the whole blow up Parliament thing ( not Fawkes idea ) could even have been a conspiracy to get James onboard. Which of course is exactly what happened. ( there’s some evidence for this but nothing concrete )
Win win…..Result ……Let’s celebrate burning Catholics and enforce it by law for everyone to attend…

Scarey times to be alive…let’s hope we never see any of that again. Which neatly brings us back to this thread

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Indeed.

I've noticed lots of enclaves on Mumsnet since it's inception. They start as supportive areas for people with common experience, every now and then when they are in 'active' a stranger wanders in. There are boards where my username would be unwelcome to some whatever I wrote. A microcosm of real life.

I grew up in areas changed by immigration and my friendship group reflects that, there are always people looking to take offence, or for a fight. The more people are crammed in together, the more likely it is to happen.

My friend Google says 8 billion humans on a planet that would be better with a fraction of that yet there are still lunatics treating procreation as an olympic sport, ( and not in a swinging from the chandeliers way).

OpheliaWasntMad · 06/12/2024 08:36

ArtfulBee · 06/12/2024 01:05

Yeah, that's not on in this day and age.

Will need to be updated to a "bundle" of sticks.

(I'm being facetious and yours was an interesting post 😉)

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In Northern Ireland you still get some of that sentiment.. ( but otherwise agreed)

MumoftwoGirls11 · 06/12/2024 09:53

Ponoka7 · 03/12/2024 12:00

I've had posts baned for what I've said about aspects of certain cultures/religions. However this is about someone being exceptionally offensive. I'm from Liverpool. We now have anti tragedy chanting laws. Nine were arrested on Sunday during the Liverpool vs Man City. We have hate speech laws and laws which covers behaviour that causes alarm. This classroom incident shouldn't have been ignored. It's either covered by the law, or expect your face punched in. It isn't ok for a Teacher to be an offensive fuckwit.

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Drawing a picture of Allah isn't hate speech though. Hate speech is "abusive or threatening speech or writing that expresses prejudice on the basis of ethnicity, religion, sexual orientation, or similar grounds." You may not like people drawing such a picture because your religion says it shouldn't be done, but it isn't hate speech because you don't like it.

A picture with no message is different from actual hate speech, e.g. saying all Muslims are terrorists or all Liverpudlians are thieves.

Preventing anyone from drawing a picture of Allah because Muslims believe it's prohibited would be the same as preventing anyone from eating beef because Hindus think cows are sacred.

expresses meaning - Google Search

https://www.google.com/search?sca_esv=360d606574466e04&rlz=1C1CHZN_enGB956GB956&sxsrf=ADLYWIL5tbl6bCKvfzKTwOBtIDJs1_wCsg:1733478530229&q=expresses&si=ACC90nytWkp8tIhRuqKAL6XWXX-N1uIyR55l9qZAr-GKj_1fALhw44sfBJt_SSsRbKjOOl3sWof-cN47htLSNoTzl7YmISLGl97fn3RbnKeUG1konESmJyI%3D&expnd=1&sa=X&ved=2ahUKEwjumJTg7pKKAxUHT0EAHbK3LyUQyecJegQIJBAO

SinnerBoy · 06/12/2024 10:06

sillything · 04/12/2024 23:50

Yes, it doesn't work that way; sexual orientation is something you can't help. If you're a lesbian woman, even if you're born in a country that has the death penalty for homosexuality (all of which are islamic theocracies),

As a random example, Uganda isn't an Islamic theocracy.

SuzieNine · 06/12/2024 10:14

ArtfulBee · 06/12/2024 01:05

Yeah, that's not on in this day and age.

Will need to be updated to a "bundle" of sticks.

(I'm being facetious and yours was an interesting post 😉)

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An effigy of the pope gets burned at Lewes every Bonfire Night.

suburburban · 06/12/2024 10:42

Enough4me · 05/12/2024 23:53

The poor teacher's experience wont get better.
It may change voting in the future (but that could come with other costs).

Yes it is so awful

What about live and let live for a change

suburburban · 06/12/2024 10:45

Scammersarescum · 05/12/2024 11:53

At the moment Muslim communities are treated with kid gloves. If they're not all hell breaks loose.

I've said it before and I will say it again look at the difference in the way the Sarah Everard protestors were treated compared to these people.

It is intolerable that Muslim communities are effectively operating under a different set of rules and it is causing dangerous pushback, people are moving to the right for a reason. Now community leaders are so emboldened they are trying to change the law of the land. Of course sharia courts have already been mooted in the past as a parallel justice system.

This issue can be solved.

Firstly curtail chain migration so that we are not ending up with very large, very insular Muslim communities. It's not a healthy form of migration.

Properly prosecute imans for threats and hate speech.

Remove Muslim faith schools that keep children isolated from Western culture.

Positively promote British culture and democracy instead of the current narrative that white is a pejorative.

Lastly make images of Allah absolutely ubiquitous. Put them everywhere. Encourage and embolden those that want to mock or criticise Islam. Christians are regularly mocked, sky fairy is a term commonly used on Mumsnet. The book of Mormon is, I'm sure deeply offensive to some. No one would think twice before taking the mickey out of a Buddhist and frankly look at the way Jews are treated. Yet we must all kowtow to the Muslims and now allow them to curtail free speech?

No. We need to push in the opposite direction. We need to push towards a liberal future.

Absolutely

Alltheprettyseahorses · 06/12/2024 10:47

ARealitycheck · 05/12/2024 12:18

Would you go to India and push and shout at the cow walking down the middle of the street? I'd like to think no, as for a lot of India the cow is considered sacred. Just like not showing an image that offends, it is just simple respect.

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Let's turn this around.

Would you come to the UK and issue death threats and hold violent protests over an everyday, commonplace aspect of UK culture? I'd like to think no.

suburburban · 06/12/2024 10:49

WillimNot · 05/12/2024 11:25

My DCs former school had a bunch of women from a certain group decide to picket outside the school gate.
They had taken offence to the school teaching about sex, LGBTQ and about pregnancy. They also found it offensive that the teens were taught that not everyone is married when they have children. All standard national curriculum stuff.

They stood outside with banners, screaming at people. My DD had one scream at her, in her face, because DD had a range of badges on her blazer, including at the time Black Lives Matter emblems, and Pride rainbows. DD, being made of sterner stuff, told them to get out of her way, as being near may mean they "caught homosexuality" as she is gay. They were very angry and she walked into school, laughing. Other kids didn't find it hilarious though and a few were very upset.

At the end of her tether, and with no help from the police, the headmistress made a note of whose parents were at the gate. At the end of the school day, each parent was emailed. In the email, it said "our school is inclusive and as such, we teach National curriculum items on Sex, religion, marriage, pregnancy and many other topics to help our pupils grow and make informed choices. Should this be something you no longer wish your child to engage in, we advise you to give us notice that your child/ren will be deregistered by the end of the week. Otherwise, your picket is expected to cease by tomorrow at Registration or those pupils will be taken off the roll."

It then went on to add the current figures for waiting lists for other schools in the area. The rest of us received an email detailing the above and welcoming in school discussion but not abuse of pupils and staff. It also said if anyone else wants to dereg, let her know.

The next morning, not one of them stood outside and DD said only one boy from her classes disappeared.

I felt this was the best way to deal with morons trying to change how we do things. Never apologise. Never give in. All schools should do the same.

Was that Birmingham

That's what I was alluding to earlier in the discussion. It does keep happening

It begs the question as to why they have so much time on their hands to stand outside the school. Are they not in work

quantumbutterfly · 06/12/2024 11:00

SuzieNine · 06/12/2024 10:14

An effigy of the pope gets burned at Lewes every Bonfire Night.

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They've also burned effigies of Trump & Thatcher among others.

StandingSideBySide · 06/12/2024 11:24

quantumbutterfly · 06/12/2024 08:30

Indeed.

I've noticed lots of enclaves on Mumsnet since it's inception. They start as supportive areas for people with common experience, every now and then when they are in 'active' a stranger wanders in. There are boards where my username would be unwelcome to some whatever I wrote. A microcosm of real life.

I grew up in areas changed by immigration and my friendship group reflects that, there are always people looking to take offence, or for a fight. The more people are crammed in together, the more likely it is to happen.

My friend Google says 8 billion humans on a planet that would be better with a fraction of that yet there are still lunatics treating procreation as an olympic sport, ( and not in a swinging from the chandeliers way).

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Agree, wholeheartedly
I wish you’d pop over to the thread on Scotland dropping the 2child benefit cap. I’ve been discussing the need to reduce the population for the planets benefit and people can’t see past their own little bubble of ‘ whose going to pay their pension’.

It’s exhausting.

StandingSideBySide · 06/12/2024 11:25

quantumbutterfly · 06/12/2024 11:00

They've also burned effigies of Trump & Thatcher among others.

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@SuzieNine i saw that on the news one year.
Double standards !

StandingSideBySide · 06/12/2024 11:30

SuzieNine · 06/12/2024 10:14

An effigy of the pope gets burned at Lewes every Bonfire Night.

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I’ll be honest I personally find that really upsetting.
I just want to point that out for all those on this thread that seem to think Catholics don’t care
We do
We just don’t attack those with different beliefs

( although the people of Lewes do it as a tradition that they probably don’t even understand )

Lentilweaver · 06/12/2024 11:40

As someone born a Hindu, I am a bit hmmm... at all those images of Hindu deities on shoes, clothing and such like. A bit out of place, t-shirts with Ganesha on them.

However, I think if there is a God, he or she can take care of himself/herself and doesn't need me to defend them. There is far more in the world to be upset about. I only believe in a God who has a sense of humour, not a vengeful God, when I believe at all.

SuzieNine · 06/12/2024 11:43

StandingSideBySide · 06/12/2024 11:30

I’ll be honest I personally find that really upsetting.
I just want to point that out for all those on this thread that seem to think Catholics don’t care
We do
We just don’t attack those with different beliefs

( although the people of Lewes do it as a tradition that they probably don’t even understand )

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They do understand, anti-Catholicism is a very strong tradition in certain parts of the UK. It's an effigy of Paul V who was pope at the time of the Gunpowder Plot. They've also burned effigies of various politicians and, memorably, gypsies in a caravan. Lots of burning crosses being carried down the street and barrels of burning tar being rolled down the road. The effigies are really impressive - huge and carried down the street on flatbed lorries.

And before anyone says 'oh, they wouldn't dare burn Islamic figures' - they do, regularly.

The teacher from Batley is still in hiding

Sausagenbacon · 06/12/2024 11:53

James was a bit too lenient on the Catholics at the time ( his wife was Catholic )
Anne of Denmark was Catholic? Well, mn is always teaching me stuff!

StandingSideBySide · 06/12/2024 11:55

SuzieNine · 06/12/2024 11:43

They do understand, anti-Catholicism is a very strong tradition in certain parts of the UK. It's an effigy of Paul V who was pope at the time of the Gunpowder Plot. They've also burned effigies of various politicians and, memorably, gypsies in a caravan. Lots of burning crosses being carried down the street and barrels of burning tar being rolled down the road. The effigies are really impressive - huge and carried down the street on flatbed lorries.

And before anyone says 'oh, they wouldn't dare burn Islamic figures' - they do, regularly.

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Thanks
Ive just had a quick Google.
I don’t know the area but there seems to have been a link with the Orange men.
However after Ian Paisley visited in 1981 handing out anti Catholic leaflets they burned an effigy of him the next year.

I know this is only a wiki extract but I’d like to think their misguided understanding of Pope Paul V is better understood today.

StandingSideBySide · 06/12/2024 11:59

Sausagenbacon · 06/12/2024 11:53

James was a bit too lenient on the Catholics at the time ( his wife was Catholic )
Anne of Denmark was Catholic? Well, mn is always teaching me stuff!

Apologies 🤣🤣🤣
i should have explained more. His wife was Protestant but converted to Catholicism

his mother, obviously was Catholic too.

Xenia · 06/12/2024 12:14

WillimNot, good for the head. Michaela school (which is non religious with very clear rules everyone knows before signing up) . Then a pupil wanted special muslim prayers and the school refused. The pupil took the school to court and lost. The judgment is quite interesting to read - https://www.judiciary.uk/wp-content/uploads/2024/04/Judgement-R-v-Michaela-Community-Schools-Trust.pdf

We do have a right to mock religions in the UK thankfully and if some people do not like that then that is a shame but I bet their Gods, if they exist, are strong enough to stand up to a bit of mocking.

https://www.judiciary.uk/wp-content/uploads/2024/04/Judgement-R-v-Michaela-Community-Schools-Trust.pdf

Dimpliy · 06/12/2024 12:17

ItoldyouIwassick · 05/12/2024 15:51

Adults who believe in God/Allah are the same as children who belive in Father Christmas. Seems about right.

Although children tend to grow out of it.

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At least those people genuinely believe in God/Allah. So many atheists lie to their children about Father Christmas knowing he doesn’t exist. That is the ultimate hypocrisy.

turbonerd · 06/12/2024 12:35

ARealitycheck · 03/12/2024 21:33

I'm astounded that the education system even suggested that caricatures of muhammed be used.

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Because as any religion, ideologi, political system, philosophy of values, islam should also accept satire.
In the UK, in Europe.
Satire and caricatures are Tradition and actually sacrosanct.