Assisted Dying

[Nordione1]

I dont know what section to put this in. Im more upset about the vote for it than I thought I'd be. I feel like we have crossed a rubicon somehow.

@VioletSpeedwell critical health care insurance is not the same as assisted dying. Many people are given six months and live pain free for years. Lots of examples of this can be found on the cancer boards. The problem is that people need to kill themselves while they have capacity so may lose years of active and relatively life.
@Vergus what I've said above- the individuals need to choose death while they are still capable. What state of mind would you need to be in to do this -and how do doctors reconcile this with their values?
Palliative care specialists can do absolutely amazing things to keep life tolerable for a very long time of that six months or however long it turns out to be. The bill will need to change to allow for a quicker, better death in extremis if it's to actually reflect what public opinion is asking for.
Once that happens we really will open the floodgates because we will need to ask medical professionals to make the call- this is a first step.

@CandyMaker

that is absolutely and categorically not true! Plenty of people do not! Are you normally so naive?

I don't know how anyone could read this and still be opposed to the bill, I'm so sorry you and your poor dad had to go through this, it sounds like hell on earth. This is exactly who the bill would be for.

I've had a neurological involuntary movement disorder called tardive dyskinesia (that was drug induced) for the past decade, and it's not life threatening nor degenerative but it is chronic and incurable. If it ever becomes so bad that I literally spend all day twitching my whole body/mouth/tongue, I'd have to seriously consider assisted dying.

I had rude health before my head injury (which was before my movement disorder) and i had similar views to you. Since having suffered from chronic illness, I've definitely had to reconsider my views.

I hate that others get to decide that I have to exist in a state that, for me, is unacceptable. I should have the right to make an election, whilst I have capacity, to say if I require X level of care then I want to die. I believe in quality of life, not quantity. What I define as quality of life is different to someone else, but for some reason their choice overrides my autonomy over my life.

Many people are given six months and live pain free for years. Lots of examples of this can be found on the cancer boards. The problem is that people need to kill themselves while they have capacity so may lose years of active and relatively life

Why on earth would that be the case?
Let’s say someone was given 6 months to live. Let’s say they went through the process of requesting AD. That process alone will probably take some time… now let’s say they gain approval. Do you really think a doctor is going to force the patient to take the drugs immediately? I would imagine a note would be put on their medical record and the patient would choose when and where. So in the case that it’s say, 12 months later and the patient still has a good quality of life, they wouldn’t be forced to die would they?

Well campaign against the Bill being changed to include depression then. And butt out of the lives of people who are terminally ill and welcome the Bill.

no they won't. If its like Oregon, which has a similar law, once you have gone through the process and been given the prescription, you can take it at a time of your choosing or not take it at all. It was said on the BBC yesterday that 30% of people on Oregon who apply for and receive their prescription don't actually use it.

very pleased here

People are talking about their relatives who were in such unimaginable pain that they were begging for someone to end their suffering. You sound very ignorant.

This!
If they attempt to pass legislation in the future to include people with depression, we can debate that at the time. But that isn’t happening! And I would imagine most people would be totally against that in any case.

It’s like people genuinely think that assisted dying is forced dying.

Did the scope creep when abortion was legalised? Did we start saying if it’s ok now then it would be ok at 38 weeks, for example?

@WillowTit

why?

@Errors they need to have capacity to end their lives. People can become extremely panicked and distressed when they first get a prognosis. It would be easy to feel that AD was the only way when in fact this may not be the case and with the right support they capsules have a fulfilling life for longer.
The saddest thing is the tragic story of the very awful end of the poor man with Parkinson's. He may not have been judged as having capacity by the time things got bad for him. Similar with dementia.

This bill won't actually address what people are worried about- terrible pain or distress at end of life. It will need to be amended to do that- and as a society we will be nudged into a situation where AD is a way to save costs for finance management.

I am very, very pleased. My body my choice.

Very sincere condolences for your loss. I can understand your emotion today. My DH's husband died of MND. He begged his wife to end his suffering. She couldn't so he died when he couldn't swallow his own saliva any more. I completely understand why people with the financial means (like an MP) or Esther Rantzen would choose Dignitas. I just want other people without the means to choose Dignitas to have the choice of death with dignity. Not people who lack capacity (unfortunately my dad with dementia), not people who are depressed (they will likely recover). People who are terminally ill and want to choose to die with dignity.

* wrong word, sorry. My DH's uncle

The mental health subject is difficult. But as things stand, people with mental health conditions who are able bodied are able to take their own lives if they decide to, often also in painful or violent ways or involving someone else or a family member for example having to be the one to find them and therefore other people also being traumatised by the death. We wouldn’t want to make it easier for people to just tap out of life due to a bad period which they could otherwise have recovered from and this is the terrible fear but I think if someone is resolute that they want to end their life, there could be a humane way to do this.

I’ve witnessed a long drawn out passing and I also have a child with severe learning disabilities and other concerns.

I was traumatised by the first but the horror that could come from assisted dying for the vulnerable is another level.

This is nonsense. Your child will never be able to access assisted dying (rightly or wrongly) because they do not have capacity to ask and agree to it.

Tbh I would be against assisted dying in a mental health crisis. They may lack insight/capacity at the point they'd request.

I know 2 relatives who had dementia and both begged for someone to kill them toward the end.
Seeing someone you care about walk around like a shambling zombie, Lash out at their children and no longer recognise anyone around them is awful.
If they had the option to end their lives peacefully before they lost their marbles I'm sure they would have.

@Errors abortion law originally required 2 doctors to sign off and had to be medically necessary for the health of the mother - her life needed to be saved, although a broad interpretation.
Now you can obtain pills from the chemist or at a walk in clinic.
I support abortion, but it's easy to see how things that are unthinkable at the time of legislation become commonplace.

The learning difficulty person would unlikely be deemed to have capacity to choose AD

And you can guarantee that?

Have you ever had to fight for a disabled persons rights?