Assisted Dying

[Nordione1]

I dont know what section to put this in. Im more upset about the vote for it than I thought I'd be. I feel like we have crossed a rubicon somehow.

I feel pleased and relieved about the vote today. I have been in extreme pain in the past (treatable) and the possibilty of dying in pain when morphine no longer works terrifies me.

For me, assisted dying and well funded pallative care are two sides of the same coin - both help enable a dignified and comfortable death. It is not an either/or choice between them.

If, in 6 months time, the person concerned is still alive and not in intolerable pain then surely there will be no need for AD? The whole point is that the patient decides when enough is enough. The idea isn't that people are put on a conveyor belt which won't stop, but have the choice if that happens.

Thank you. The suffering in his last few weeks makes the pain of losing him worse. Seeing a strong man in pain, unable to move & doubly incontinent will haunt me for a very long time.

I am pleased and feel it’s long overdue

I do understand peoples concerns

I do believe in time changes shall be made that people are highlighting as concerns and assisted dying will not only be for those with six month or less to live, it will become available to a less strict criteria

I’ve already told you several times that although this bill only applies to the terminally ill - once introduced it could easily be expanded to include non-terminal conditions - such as depression. How many more times do I have to say it? It’s a legitimate concern - because it’s happened in other countries. I suffered badly with depression as a teen. I don’t want my son or daughter being offered it if they end up how I did as a teen.

Good. About bloody time - it’s amazing it’s taken this long for such a humane milestone to be passed. Why do we advocate autonomy and control for people throughout their lives and then cruelly deny them those exact same rights when they are dying? It’s never made any sense to me. Death should be dignified and we should be allowed to exert freedom of choice at that time as we are at any other stage of our lives.

6 months prognosis is incredibly naive. It's actually difficult to give this level of accuracy to anyone.
In fact the whole bill is naive and assumes that there are no bad actors in politics or budget holders who would be keen to free beds at any cost.
Given the incredible lottery of palliative care in the uk matched with people's unwillingness to ask for things they are entitled to or to challenge medical decisions, I don't think we are advanced enough as a society to cope with this.
And just watch the proponents of the death penalty use it to support their twisted agenda.

If you have watched a loved one endure a slow, torturous death it is so very hard to remember them without that horrific memory on the periphery. It clouds all my lovely memories of my dad, who so desperately wanted to die with dignity.

However, it was not to be. Now, to be clear, he also developed dementia so this would have precluded him from assisted dying in any case. But even without dementia, his concurrent Parkinson's and cancer stripped him of all dignity and I know for a fact he would have chosen a peaceful death had it been available.

As it was, his final year was spent in agony, unable to walk more than a few steps, go the toilet or use his arms. If he needed to urinate, I had to somehow hold him up from behind and stand there with a jug underneath his penis so he didn't wee all over the toilet and himself. He also became doubly incontinent. I had to feed him. I had to comfort him as he sat in a chair with tears rolling down his face saying 'This is so degrading, I want to die. I can't take any more'. I had to watch him writhe and thrash around in bed at night as he couldn't get relief. He never slept more than two hours a night for the last eight months of his life. Nor did I.

My dad, an eloquent, kind, rational and extremely clever engineer, died a hideous death in hospital. He developed terrible hallucinations and psychosis and thought his visiting granddaughter was on fire. He was grasping at her skin asking why no-one had called the fire brigade and screaming that her skin was melting. He got severe pneumonia and had to be suctioned several times a day. If you've witnessed this, you'll know the trauma. He died gasping for breath, his face screwed up in anguish. That's my final memory of him.

So while I can empathise with others' concerns – and I genuinely do understand these concerns – my passionate opinion is that we should work very hard to alleviate these concerns. NOT use them as a reason to withhold a peaceful, pain-free death for people like my dad.

This

Look at the case of Dutch teenager Aurelia Brouwers for example.

@ismu

That’s an incredibly cynical view and is exactly why safeguards will be put in place to mitigate against the “bad actors,” and, I agree, it would be naive to assume they aren’t out there. But you are looking at it from one side only - what about the individual’s right to exert freedom of choice if they have capacity to choose an assisted dying pathway over a potentially painful, long-drawn out palliative care death which may cause them untold amounts of suffering?

6 months prognosis is incredibly naive. It's actually difficult to give this level of accuracy to anyone

Not really. Doctors do this for critical health insurance claims.

I am so very sorry for your loss and for what your dad had to experience. It’s inhuman.

You've already told ME several times, have you? No you have NOT already told ME several times. I am interested in commenting on the Bill as it stands. Which does NOT include people experiencing depression. As I have already said.

Exactly!

I think it’s inhumane to deny people with particular prognoses- who cannot get better only worse, whose future looks like suffering - the option to end their misery sooner rather than later. It’s their right. I don’t know how people dare try to get in the way of that tbh - a total lack of empathy??

Wow. Rude.

Call me rude if you like. I found your post exceptionally ill-advised and rude.

Oh no. I'm still fucked. Then.

@MrsPeregrine

the bill doesn’t apply to people with depression.
people with terminal illness who are just going to suffer and get worse should not be denied their right to die sooner rather than later because of this false perception re depression @MrsPeregrine

But the bill is for those who are terminally ill and who have capacity (as deemed by two doctors and a judge across several weeks) and who have made the decision themselves without coercion and repeatedly make that decision. That surely has the criteria/safe guards that you mentioned? Expanding it would require new legislation.

I'm usually very balanced in my opinions but I cannot see the side of this that doesn't think assisted dying is a good idea. It will have insane amounts of bureaucracy attached to it but ultimately it gives people a choice. Our health case system prioritise life over humanity and it's not kind to watch and it's certainly not civilised.

See I wonder how many people who are against the bill have actually witnessed a traumatic and long-drawn out death. I think I might be right in assuming that once you’ve witnessed this and lost a loved one this way, you see the humanity in such a bill being passed

I am massively relieved and also very emotional at the outcome of today's vote. 9 years ago (almost to the day), I accompanied my fiercely independent and incredibly brave, wonderful mum to Dignitas in Switzerland. She'd been diagnosed with MND 6 months earlier and it had rapidly progressed. She wanted to take back some control over this brutal disease that she knew would cause her death.

The process was thorough (as it should be) with numerous checks along the way to ensure her decision was her own with no chance of any coercion. Medical records were stringently checked and multiple doctors met with her to ensure she was of sound mind and fully cognisant of the decision she was about to make.

Her relief when she was given the 'go ahead', the incredibly special time we spent together the few days before she died, and the calm and peaceful nature of her death mean I have been an avid supporter of this Bill. The fact she had to travel outside the country, the amount it cost, her fears that her condition would progress so fast she may not be able to proceed and concern that I would be implicated in her death did place a huge amount of stress on her. So now the potential for this to be available to people within England and Wales in the future, comes as a huge relief.

EXACTLY!!

I think this is a balanced view