All these issues with schools!

[Capercaille]

I feel so sorry for schools and teachers these days. All I see on here is contant moaning and whining!

Has it always been like this?!

Indeed, it seems it creates time.

And fully trained people too

Well, LAs certainly find themselves suddenly able to seek said advice and information when faced with the prospect of JR. They know it isn’t a lawful excuse and they know JR proceedings will not go in their favour.

@Hoppinggreen first post about it didn’t give any further detail other than 50% of reception had SEN and the HT was saying the majority was down to parenting issues. Having seen first hand how damaging parental blame can be when there are genuine SEN needs I felt further clarification was needed, which had been given and hopefully it’s not as it originally sounded .

@bellocchild I can see this. I wish I could watch my own child in mainstream and really see what's going on. He was one of about 6 ND in his class in primary. ( Some obvious, some not, some diagnosed).
In secondary he certainly is not the only one. There will be a huge proportion with different needs.

Even if you had loads of specialist SEN schools, there would still be problems as the needs are so diverse. One SEN kid is just one unique SEN kid. My son would struggle in a class where a child is throwing things. That child might struggle with my son wriggling about next to him. It would be fantastic to resource separate learning spaces and teachers within mainstream but it's going to cost a tonne.

The ND population is huge, I have no doubt about this now and it doesn't help demonising the difficult ones which often happens. Some of these kids that are very disruptive are the most intelligent. They just don't conform. The system is at fault here. It's not just one oddity here, SEN kids make up a significant proportion of school populations.

There are potential geniuses and people of great value and worth in these annoying disruptive kids.

Of course, apologies if my post made it look as if SEN kids were being written off at the school and parents blamed . It's not how it is I promise and if it ever is we have a strong and experienced Governing body who can intervene

Perhaps by reprioritising the children who are in the EHCP process and moving up the child of the parent threatening judicial review whilst delaying an appointment for another child.

Exactly, time hasn’t been created and people been found, you’ve just bumped some other kid down the list.

Yes, sadly, this does happen sometimes. That isn’t the fault of the parent advocating and enforcing their DC’s right, though. Sometimes time is found though because it prompts LAs to commission an independent assessment.

Perhaps not but SEN children with parents unable to advocate for them for whatever reason (their own SEN, disadvantage, poor education, lack of confidence etc) are still further disadvantaged.

Thankyou for explaining and sorry if I seemed to fly off the handle about it it’s just I’ve seen the damage that a poor attitude towards parents can cause when a child has SEN so I get quite passionate about it ! Sounds like things aren’t the way I assumed so glad to hear that and I hope going forward your school manages to get things sorted out for all

And that is dreadful. This system fails the most vulnerable. Sadly, it isn’t going to change in the foreseeable. It is why I am passionate about all children and young people receiving the SEP they require. And why I post informing other enforcement action can be taken and is successful because parents often don’t know they can do something about LAs acting unlawfully by breaching the timescales or forcing schools to fund EHCNA advice and information. The wider system’s failures are not the concern of the individual child, though. Parents shouldn’t avoid enforcement action because of the needs of other children. Rather all parents should be supported to enforce their DC’s rights.

I think there are many areas of the public sector (not just education) where there are lots of qualified professionals who could be e.g. teaching SEN kids or doing Ed psych or SL assessments, but they're not doing that work as the working conditions are tough and the pay isn't great.

LAs can find people if they e.g. commission a charity or a private organisation (that's how they provide OT where I live).

So EHCP assessments could be done faster, just like hip replacements can be done faster by contracting some lists out to a private hospital.

DD was assessed privately by an Ed psych who had actually retired from the SEN dept of our LA. He wasn't that old at all - fairly recently retired.

It takes the will to do it, but there is potentially more capacity.

@BrightYellowTrain spends a huge chunk of her own time advising posters on here, by the way.

She's certainly doing her bit for others!

It takes the will to do it

And frustratingly LAs often don’t have the will because delaying saves them money in the short term and there are no serious repercussions for the LA.

Maybe a little, but we are in a private school and have gone private for all assessments and interventions, and there is still constraint in services. It is much quicker to go private (6 months vs 3 years for an autism assessment for example), but we were quite limited in options and many private providers were operating on waitlists. Having a second child assessed for different send by ed psych and encountering similar. A 3 year wait for assessment is unconscionable, but even 6 months (two thirds of a school year) is a lot for a child in crisis. It might be different in other parts of the country, but even private providers are operating above capacity in our area,

LAs are not constrained to professionals in their area. They can, and when forced to do, fund, sometimes with large price-tags attached, professionals from elsewhere.

@BrightYellowTrain in your view, is it worth pursuing an EHCP when the school are saying all is well. I don't believe it is and I'm not clear in mind what an EHCP would achieve within the school.

We are in a difficult position where we can't move school, homeschooling not an option. Son is Year 7 secondary and now dislikes school.

Child is diagnosed Autistic/ADHD/tourettes. Kind of getting by but struggles alot with focus, with sitting still, organisation, homework demands. I think what will an EHCP do to help here so just haven't bothered. I'm also exhausted a little by the fight I went through for diagnosis. Forced to go private as didn't know about this right to choose! NHS declined assessment request.

He's average to slightly above academically. I can sense the teachers find him annoying and don't like him. I don't want to make life worse by pissing them off. I believe it really can make life worse, it isn't because I'm not assertive.

If this is beyond your scope then no worries, I totally understand you don't know our situation.

@Tittat50 Sadly, for a multitude of reasons some schools incorrectly tell parents their DC doesn’t need or won’t get an EHCP. Many parents go on to successfully make the request themselves. Although some have to appeal at least once.

An EHCP can provide far more support than can otherwise be provided. It could fund therapies such as SALT, OT and MH therapies. It could provide mentoring to help with organisation. 1:1 support some or all of the time. It could also fund provision away from school some or all of the time. Provision is based on individual needs and is whatever the child or young person reasonably requires.

I often have pupils moving to my school where parents have been told that they would never get an EHCP but within a couple of weeks it’s obvious that they really do, and sooner rather than later and it’s much harder if they’ve just moved into our school with no evidence of prior ADPR that we can use.

@BrightYellowTrain thankyou. Yes I really can believe they'd fob parents off. Thankyou. I'm going to look into this further now.

@Tittat50 IPSEA and SOSSEN’s websites are good places to start.

@SENCoWithADHD I see it a lot. LAs are even worse, especially when they refuse to assess on the basis the pupils need time to settle in a new school/need 2+ APDR cycles. Some are good, but in many areas, SENDIASS is just as bad for giving incorrect information.

The other situation I see is when the primary school provide a large amount of SEN support beyond what is typically available at a SEN support level (e.g. full time 1:1) but don’t pursue/don’t encourage the parents to pursue an EHCP. Then, on transition to secondary things deteriorate rapidly because secondary schools can rarely provide that level of support without an EHCP.

Similarly, I regularly see those with EHCPs without 1:1 detailed, specified and quantified in F but where the primary has provided 1:1 anyway. Parents are then anxious and stressed on transition to secondary when the 1:1 isn’t provided.

@Tittat50 I think it's worth it. For one thing, when you finally get it, you could potentially move him to a school that is more suitable but that you wouldn't meet the admissions criteria for now. Plus the possible therapies as mentioned.

The bar to getting an EHCP is mostly time and determination. By the time you're thinking you need one, actually having the needs isn't really the issue!

@Phineyj thankyou. I thought the school could block you if they decided to say ' no problem here'. I should know better because they tried block most things in my experience up to this point.

@Tittat50 the school can’t prevent you requesting an EHCNA. You don’t need their permission or agreement to make the request.

When the LA approaches the school for their input, the school could say ‘nothing to see here’. That isn’t uncommon. It doesn’t mean you can’t secure an EHCP. It can make an appeal more likely.