All these issues with schools!

[Capercaille]

I feel so sorry for schools and teachers these days. All I see on here is contant moaning and whining!

Has it always been like this?!

You’re only going to see the whingeing here. No one posts DC had a completely fine / slightly dull / good day today / likes their teacher etc.

The posts you see aren’t representative at all.

They were insisting on us either going to the gp or taking dd in to them to verify things like high temperatures , d and v and on one occasion period pain (dd has endo) . The gp wouldn’t give appts to verify for school as there was no clinical need for an appointment and dd was too unwell to go in and really what were they expecting as verification of d and v for example???? Diarrhoea in the reception?!!!! So for those it became our word against theirs and we got to 8 unauthorised sessions (the limit is 10) so we thought its just better for everyone to stop it all before it gets to the court stage

I genuinely think with the behaviour in schools getting so bad or children struggling to get in or being already behind when they start or so many children presenting with SEN that the future looks quite troubling. I’m not sure how society is going to function.

@EvangelicalAboutButteredToast I'd rephrase it as wholly inadequate. Some minor flimsy accomodations by one understanding teacher does in my view make a difference for my son. It's not enough but it's something.

I disagree that funding has to be done on the whack-a-mole model.

That's the narrative that makes people put up with terrible conditions in schools.

Dealing with conditions in schools means providing adequate funding for the needs of every child.

You can't get away from the question of money. How to raise it is the political hot potato that nobody wants to handle. But schools can't meet the needs of students without the money to provide the necessary qualified staff.

Life has got significantly worse for both teachers and pupils, unfortunately. There are no winners here.

I very recently had an extremely poorly-behaved child moved into my tutor group. My tutor group is generally excellent - a mix of luck (I have many students who generally want to do well) and my very firm rules and boundaries.

This student has been out of control for some time, and is badly-behaved in class - continuously out of their seat, jumping around, hijacking every conversation, messing with equipment in my room (gas taps, telephone on my desk, swearing and ignoring anything anyone tells them to do, trying to be intimidating). I have followed the systems, raised concerns about their influence on others (other students see them get away with things, because restorative behaviour techniques do not work, and some have started imitating behaviours) and am now having parental complaints because other students go home crying because of the constant disruption to lessons, but I am told by school leaders that the student will remain where they are because I have a tighter grip on them (for the 20min I see them a day) than most and such a lovely tutor group.

My argument was and is, does this student have more rights to be in school and in classes than all the students who try to do the right thing, some of whom have stated that they now stay at home on particularly bad days? When students go home crying and their stress levels are now constantly high because of this student, why do the one student's needs trump that of the many who now suffer?

This is Y9 in secondary; our school has students in tutor groups for all lessons until their options kick in.

And this is what we have to deal with.

@ThrallsWife so this sounds much like a child who has ADHD, possibly also Autistic.

Strict rules and boundaries don't work. I feel for the kids disrupted. I feel for you. I feel more for these kids.

They are actually disabled and given nothing or next to nothing. Parent's often in denial and don't have a diagnosis, or more accurately can't get one because the NHS will reject or make you wait years. Teachers and kids just want them out.

No wonder these kids are all having breakdowns. The behaviour is unpleasant. But the behaviour would not be like this with better support. The school system is awful.

I don't know how I as an NT child put up with it myself quite frankly.

That’s significant as the reported numbers by the NHS are approx 12% so that is twice the average.

The secondary schools I have visited with my Y6 DD say they exclude repeat disrupters who have to go to a separate classroom. Why isn't this done at yours?

I can assure you this student is not autistic. I know and work with plenty of autistic children; this student displays none of the symptoms. The same goes for ADHD; this student chooses when to behave and when not to. But a big problem is that behaviour issues are often now assumed to falls into SEND, when sometimes, the answer is just bad behaviour.

I believe the NHS figures are inaccurate and it is much closer to the 25%. People can't access a diagnosis because they're blocked or wait lists are years long. Like most things, the NHS figures will be inaccurate.

This student is not alone in their behaviour and we have far worse, which either get put into our on-site PRU or into internal exclusion, but the latter is only on a one-day basis before they are back.

Labour said they want to clamp down on internal as well as external exclusion and from everything I have read, this will only make it worse. Be prepared for our students to have to put up with even more disruption for the sake of the few to the disadvantage of the many.

@ThrallsWife I can't possibly know as I'm not teaching this boy. Our primary 🏫 SENCO said my son couldn't possibly be because there was choice involved. He's now confirmed Autistic/ADHD.

Equally, my own child is most terrified and disrupted by a boy he feels certain is Neurotypical and just terribly behaved.

I wonder if those with behaviour challenges who are not seen to have a condition can access extra support in school. Because it's clearly unsustainable if this is a daily challenge.

So each time they act up in class the boy should get sent out to internal exclusion class. Surely (hopefully) he'll get fed up of the routine and behaviour MAY improve if this happens every.single.time. I appreciate its a pain for all else.

The mother of a boy in my child’s pre-school class was called in because he was answering back and being rude to the teachers (all female) she asked us if we had been called in and we said no and rather than working with the school to improve her sons behaviour she’s moved him! It really worries me as a mother of sons, what are we teaching boys in situations like this where this small child is terrorising his female teachers and then his mum moves the problem, I worry for women in the future when this generation of boys grow up

I don't think so. I went to school and back by myself from aged 5 (with lots of other children, not alone) so our parents never saw the teachers apart from parents evening once a year. They had very little idea what happened at school. I remember I got slapped on the legs by a teacher because she wrongly thought I'd done something. I didn't bother telling my mum because she'd have said it was my fault. It made us very resilient and I think teachers were left alone to teach. This was years before the internet and we had no phone at home so there was no way to contact school, and no class WhatsApp groups for parents to complain about things.

@usernother this was my experience. We didn't say anything because our parents didn't care, were too busy, had faith in the institution.

Plus parents couldn't really access the school anyway. No emails, no social media.

The problem is as teachers, we can't say a student is being lazy or a daydreamer any more. Parents will argue they have unmet learning needs and demand a label for them. Students can't deal with failure because they haven't had the opportunity to learn resilience because of their snowplough parents and they desperately look for any excuse to avoid taking responsibility for their own behaviour.

Like one of the previous posters, as an experienced teacher, I can tell the difference between a child with needs and a child who is lazy but I'm not allowed to voice this because of the complaints. The kids/parents have so much information at their finger tips some of them will start to act out their preferred SEND label i.e. the 'autistic' child whose autism switches on an off depending on who is watching. Some are quite open in saying they'll do anything to get their child extra time in an exam. I'm quite sure some do so much reading on the issue they actually convince themselves that they have something.

There are more kids out there with genuine needs too but unfortunately it's harder to help them when you have to deal with the lazy and feckless who now have a green light to behave however they like with no consequences.

I'm sure in the old days some kids with genuine needs did suffer, but the problem is now we are all suffering because nobody is prepared to stand up to the madness.

This. My DS age 8 has ASD and we desperately want him to go to a special school but keep getting told no he has his needs met in mainstream. He has a full-time 1-to-1 but his behaviour can often be disruptive to others and he struggles in the mainstream environment. There are zero special schools in my town anyway, he will have to travel should we ever get a place for him.

I think the nature of teaching has changed, as has everyone's expectations; and people are more aware of children who need extra support, but this hasn't yet translated into the Government actually doing something useful like providing the funding for it.

There may very well be some parents who won't believe that the issue is actually their child was rude/badly behaved, but there will be many more for whom the issues they raise are legitimate and are the result of poor Government policies and (often significant) failings on the part of the school.

As for the swearing and physical abuse, this was happening in schools in the 1960s (and no doubt before then), so it really isn't anything new.

I read only a few of the posts but they seem to imply it's the fault of the parents - helicoptering, snowploughing, and what not.

Well, there are some parents who are failing their children (and impacting schools) but those are not involved parents. Parents who lack emotional intelligence (often due to their parents) and are either too strict, too permissive, or neglectful with their kids.

Most parents however are involved, good parents who are taking onboard all new research on child development, all that we have been learning about ND, trying to navigate a very different, over stimulating modern digital world.
The way we treat children now is generally very different to a few decades ago, and that is not a bad thing.

The issue is the schools have not caught up. Without getting into much detail to everything that's wrong with them for today's world, my suggestions for improvement would be-

-easier curriculum - less academics and more practical, everyday skills
-emphasis on play and wellbeing
-shorter weeks at schools (4 days?) and/or shorter days (pick up at lunch)

Yes, not good for the economy, as that will mean either of the parents being around to actually be with the child/ren for a substantial time.

Good for society in the long term though, imo, better regulated children, better mental health, less crime...
Definitely solving the issue with the pressure on schools.

@H34th agree so much. There's just no need at all for the extent of what they teach. It's so unnecessary for most kids.

That's because there used to be more places in special schools! The bus used to come round and take all the special needs kids. Now they're more likely to be in local schools with your kids.

Regarding your first point, I was an undiagnosed ND child who didn't cope with a lot of what school threw at me. Having to cope because my parents and teachers didn't notice didn't help me, it just meant I had a massive breakdown in my 20s.

what you are saying really is problems that weren't so visible are more visible now

I think a lot of it is to do with the struggles in the NHS in the last 15 years. My DS desperately needed medical help in his early years and couldn't get it. (He couldn't breathe properly.) The GP just told his to suck it up and find a way to cope. He couldn't and has now had a nervous breakdown and stopped going to school. None of this is okay, and it's definitely not bad parenting.