All these issues with schools!

[Capercaille]

I feel so sorry for schools and teachers these days. All I see on here is contant moaning and whining!

Has it always been like this?!

For me (I've been teaching 15 years), realising my child had SEN and getting support for her has been so helpful to me as a teacher. Much more so than the very minimal training on it I received.

There's nothing like living it.

Schools vary but Humanities subjects at KS3 generally aren't streamed or set (there are sometimes "nurture classes" where those behind in literacy and numeracy do a different take on the syllabus) and neither are GCSEs and A-levels (except core subjects). So you can be teaching an extremely wide ability/concentration/behaviour/attendance range. Of course students may be directed towards/away from certain subjects at GCSE, and A-levels have entrance criteria, but they are academic ones.

I’ve recently moved my y3 child from an almost two form entry school to a tiny village school. Have had a long history with the original school, my 18yo and 16yo went there. It’s not the same school any more. New Head arrived when my older ones were y5 and y6, things have changed significantly. I’m not sure the reasons but I’m guessing a combination of new Head, Covid, changes in parenting (I see “gentle parenting” quite a lot in my own job).

I had concerns that my youngest was dyslexic. Turns out he’s romping along at new school, was moved up two reading book bands within 4 weeks of moving schools, been told his handwriting is now beautiful etc. His y3 teacher at the old school was the most uninspiring, unenthusiastic person I’ve ever met, a young bloke who has only been qualified a couple of years 🤷🏼‍♀️

Something in the system is broken but the school we have moved to is amazing, I wish I’d moved him ages ago.

To a large extent, the contract between schools, children and their parents was broken during the pandemic. Many more children accepted school attendance unquestioningly before school closures.

The questioning and 'option' of not going to school produces anxiety in itself. My younger DC, were infant and junior age in lockdown. They found life in lockdown so much easier.

My DS2 in particular had huge anxiety in going back to school to the point of physical symptoms. The knee jerk response to attendance after Covid has been counter productive and entirely contradictory to what we practiced during the pandemic.

I agree that SEN has always been a problem in schools. I left school at 11 (1st year high school) through 'illness' and never went back. My youngest DSIS exactly the same. My middle sis had behavioural problems (at home) and engaged in risk taking behaviour.

I'm currently mid way through ND diagnosis with DD and DS2, at huge expense, as DD has been on the NHS waiting list for years. I want things to be better for them. They are both really struggling at school, even with supportive parents and some school staff looking out for them.

It is fashionable on MN to bemoan young people's lack of resilience and sensitive parents, but it is far better than the alternative. In my case, zero secondary education, sexual abuse, directly due to insufficient adult oversight and guidance.

School is still much like prison, no choice in being there, no choice in what to wear, no choice in what, when and where to eat, no choice in how and when you move your body, no choice in sitting, standing, being outside or inside. That's before you get to the problem of 30 children of very different abilities and ways of learning being taught the same thing in the same way.

The fact there is no workable solution to this currently doesn't mean that we shouldn't discuss it.

Tell me you have no experience of prisons without telling me you have no experience of prisons :)

Seriously, have you heard yourself?

That might just be a hint as to why DC these days have very little resilience, if you're equating school to prison :)

Quick hint - thousands upon thousands of DC and young people are refusing to go to school or to get a job. And nobody can make them or is attempting to. But the government will be taking steps to address the extreme worklessness of young people.

You don't get out of going to prison by saying 'I don't like it, it makes me anxious'.

I don't know why you've had such a strong reaction to my post @TidyTaupeSnail. Tell me you have no experience of parenting children with SEN without telling me you have no experience of parenting children with SEN.

The point I was making is that my DC do go to school with anxiety, I "make" them. I also try to support them and comply with the school to the best of my abilities, as do they.

Anyone is allowed to be concerned about the current state of schools. And frankly, atm, everyone should be. Almost every person reaching adulthood is partly a product of our education system, so schools affect us all.

So..nothing like prison then.

I'm really not sure what point you're trying to make. Besides which, there are a huge range of prisons with varying levels of security. However I'm sorry if my use of the word 'prison' triggered you.

Do you work in a school or have you been imprisoned? I'm confused which angle you are taking.

School is still much like prison, no choice in being there, no choice in what to wear, no choice in what, when and where to eat, no choice in how and when you move your body, no choice in sitting, standing, being outside or inside

This is also the reality of a lot of jobs. It's not just at school you know. It's just a fact of life.
I work in a medical setting. I have to wear certain scrubs of a certain colour. I HAVE to be bare below the elbows even if it's fucking freezing. I am not allowed to eat in the medical rooms. Only in the staff room on specified breaks or lunch time. I can't just stand up half way through a medical procedure and go outside or start walking in laps around my surgery with the patient watching me wondering what the fuck I'm doing.
School is supposed to be part preparing children for real life. And in some jobs all the things you described is real life.
Yet again on mumsnet people only seem to think in terms of office jobs. Yes in one of those you can get up when you want from your desk, go eat a chocolate bar at 10.43am if you wish, wear a jumper if it's cold etc. But actually in plenty of jobs you can't do those things. Your day is structured and you can only wear/act/do certain things. Just like at school.

A lot of that applies to the teachers too...

Prison is 24/7, 365 days a year. For primary school children, the time they spend at school is roughly 25% of their waking hours over the course of a year - and the time they spend in the classroom is significantly less. Worth remembering.

Of course, but those jobs will probably be entirely unsuitable for some autistic people. Some other autistic people may thrive with that structure. You have the freedom to not be in that job

DH and I also put up with and see a lot of unacceptable behaviour in our work everyday.

There is a toxic level of nepotism in my workplace and certain roles are routinely performance managed at a minimum of 90% productivity, which is well above the national average, while other roles are not at all. Bullying stays on just the right side of deniabilty. I work in the public sector too, so have experienced abuse from service users. That is just part and parcel and I manage to deal with all of the above without too much anxiety, others would not.

In DH's workplace, taking time off to collect a new BMW would be celebrated, while taking time off for a child in hospital is very much frowned upon, with a side helping of verbal ribbing about being 'under the thumb'.

All of the above is still better than my job at 18 when my 60 something manager would regularly pinch my bum. I still expect better. Same with schools, teaching and parenting.

...and pretty all autistic people with have no problem with scrubs and Crocs. 😅

@Flocke

You have an element of choice in your job. I assume you would leave if you found it unbearable.
I wish I could tell you about the meltdown my 11 year old had yesterday because he couldn't cope with a very ordinary social situation. But I can't because he is a foster child.
He is a very bright child, he has huge potential. He cannot cope with the school environment, no amount of saying it'd preparation for life will change that

Neither.

But I have a lot of experience of both.

And posters below me have explained it very adequately.

It's life that we have to do things we don't enjoy, or don't want to do, or find boring, or follow rules we don't agree with.

And one of the many complex reasons why we have more DC out of school and more young people out of work and claiming benefits than ever before is because of the attitude that school is a terrible thing akin to prison because DC can't do exactly what they like at all times and the 'system' must accommodate that or be seen to be discriminatory and ultimately, it's then seen as the failing of the 'system' when these DC leave school unable to consider doing anything they don't want to do.

Which many, many teachers and other workers have commented on.

So how are these DC supposed to go into the world of work which according to you would be 'like prison' because the young person can't choose to do what they want every minute?

That's work. And life.

Are you missing the point that my DC are in school? Exemplary behaviour and well-liked (by their teachers, not necessarily their peers). The cost to them is huge anxiety, CAHMS and private psychological support, at significant financial cost. Eating issues due to communal and noisy canteen, in addition to sensory issues.

I also work, exemplary behaviour from me too, it goes with our variety of ND. I've done pretty well for myself given no state education after the age of 11. I am working very hard to keep my children in school with my support so that things are not quite so difficult for them.

And tell me you have zero experience of EBSA without telling me you have zero experience of EBSA. :)

...and BTW, I get on very well with my DC teachers and support staff. I constantly say thank you and regularly tell them how grateful I am for their support and I really am.

I don't make a scene when DC's teacher forgets to move them away from sitting next to their bully (who has been pushing and shoving as well as verbally abusive) I politely raise it again, because I know it must be very difficult to keep track of everything for numerous children. That doesn't mean that I don't wish for better.

Honestly don’t waste your breath on people like @TidyTaupeSnail they clearly have no clue just how bad children can get when they have such anxiety about school and its environment.

I hope you manage to find some support. We are currently trying to access CAMHS, like Fort Knox!

My DD15 hit burnout this year after years of masking and struggling. She became a shell of herself.

if only I’d just told her suck it up it’s life, we’d have been grand! 😏

@Velvian

Firstly I wasn't responding to your posts. Secondly I hadn't missed that your children were in school with exemplary behaviour because I haven't seen your posts.
Thirdly did you miss that I have been referring to a child in care who has been waiting four years for an assessment. CAHMs have said they have nothing to offer him. As a child in care he has no access to private therapists. At home with me he is a very well behaved little boy who had beautiful manners. But he can't spend the rest of his life in my house.
Fourthly I'll go and tell my friend whose 19 year old daughter is sectioned, suicidal and can't get the medication she needs that they should just carry on and suck it up because hey that's life.
Finally, I have a son with ASD who is in his second year at uni. He also came from the care system and has trauma related issues. Lucky for him that he got a diagnosis at 4 years old, lucky for him that he had a great foster carer, lucky for him he was adopted by me who was able to support him in his absolutely fabulous school working with his absolutely fabulous teachers.
He too had exemplary behaviour.
I'd have given anything not to have witnessed what I did yesterday but until this child gets an assessment, diagnosis and medication sadly it will happen again and he will be of school, no education, no future

Sorry @Ted27 i quoted the wrong post. 😜

The Head of the Primary school where I am Governor tells me that 50% of her Reception class have SN, the majority have SN that are down to their Home life and would have much milder SN or none at all with different Parenting.
We are talking about parents who can't do a good job here for a variety of reasons rather than those who won't largely

Well she sounds professional 🙄

How on earth would one know what the home life is of all the kids in a school?!