To think that if the school uniform states black shoes the kids should be wearing black shoes?

[Annabella92]

I probably am being unreasonable. I'm just frustrated by a daily battle I have with my child. The school dress code is black shoes with black or white socks. Every quarter the newsletter reiterates this and seeks to remind parents. So I make sure my child has black shoes, two pairs actually, one waterproof more expensive pair as they sometimes have to go through long wet grass to get to school. And every morning is a battle to get them to wear black shoes with black or white socks (which I bought plenty of too). They say everyone just wears their normal coloured trainers and whatever socks and when I go to school pickup, they're not wrong. So it seems this is voluntary in practice and next year i can save £100 on shoes and socks and not have to deal with the drama every morning. I'm.a natural rule follower but feel like an idiot

TLDR: if something is part of school dress code it should be enforced, or just dropped altogether?

I actually didn't know that was a controversial viewpoint? What is the argument against school uniform?

I understand if the uniform is stupidly expensive, but other than that I don't get it.

I have only worked in secondary and the schools in which uniform was enforced were much better schools generally, and also really helped bullying and cliquee-ness (sp?).

I worked in severely disadvantaged areas but in London there's always a disparity in any given borough, so the benefit of the 'equity' aspect was really noticeable.

Just send your kid in in the proper uniform and don't worry about anyone else

Ime uniform enforcement says a lot about the quality and behaviour of a school. It’s no conincidence that the vast majority of top schools in the UK have strict uniforms smartly worn.

I have DC at primary and secondary and all have smart blazer/tie style uniforms with strict rules about how they are worn (smart black school shoes, top button done up, blazer only removed with permission in hot weather etc). The DC have daily uniform checks and detentions are given to those not complying

I would be very concerned about a school that is too lazy to enforce its own uniform. It probably says a lot about the standards elsewhere in the place.

But parents that send their DC there are generally wealthy and selective schools do not usually accept ND DCs. Their results and school behaviour is skewed by only accepting a certain 'type' of person into their community.

I believe in reasonable adjustments to uniform. So, if black school shoes is an issue for some kids with sensory disorders or whatever, smart black comfy trainers should be fine. Same with leggings/ trousers. If they're the right colour, and look smart, then it's a reasonable adjustment. But colourful shoes? No, I agree with you op, either enforce it or don't have a uniform policy. I'd be having a word with the school and explaining what a battle it is for you every day, and it would help you reinforce the uniform rules to your dc if other dc were likewise following the rules. And if it continues, explain that you won't be having the daily battles any more and spending a fortune on the right shoes.

Some people are saying yabu because it's none of your business what others wear. Dd is ND. She struggles with clothing generally, but actually she struggles mainly with non uniform days, there's too much choice and she doesn't want to make the wrong one. She compares herself to others and gets really anxious and self conscious if she looks 'different' or 'not good enough'. Being told to wear one colour while others wore other colours would definitely be an issue for her. And if following the rules while others didn't inadvertently caused an issue for her, I'd be speaking to the school. So it is your business, op. Because the school's inability to enforce their own uniform policy is causing problems for you and your child. And I say this as a parent who well knows the problems a uniform/ clothing can cause, but works with my child, and the school, to follow the rules as closely as she can, despite her difficulties.

That's not a thing

Yes, both my girls have school shoes from Sainsbury's, after getting Clarks ones and them falling apart in a few weeks, I thought would try cheaper ones so could get 2-3 pairs for same price as 1 Clarks pair. And they actually lasted much better, 1 oldest wore them for about 9 months and now youngest is 6 months into wearing her older sisters pairs. Neither of them are particularly 'light' on their shoes, they both never stop running. They are a bit scuffed on the front but otherwise still perfect after 15 months of wear

blazer only removed with permission in hot weather etc)

I object to this. They should be able to remove their blazer in class if they wish to because every person feels the external temperature differently. It might be too hot for some children and too cold for others. There is no reason whatsoever for insisting on blazers being worn unless given permission. They could insist on blazers being worn to walk to and from classes and I think that's ok, but not when sitting in class and they are supposed to be learning.

Life is short, I really couldn't imagine giving a fuck about school children wearing the wrong coloured shoes. Seriously.

The simple solution here is for UK schools to abolish uniform and just get on with it. Honestly, the world won't end.

One thing I’m never entirely convinced by is the causal link; that strict uniform is actually responsible for a lack of bullying.

Is there real evidence for this connection, or could it just be that schools with the time, energy, and will to be strict on uniforms also tend to be strict on serious issues like bullying?

Yes, I’m sure all the other kids wear different colored shoes for confidential medical reasons. Or alternately, you could calm down.

Pardon?

I agree with you OP, but have learnt to pick my many battles with teenage daughters.
An excellent compromise is black Nike Air Force 1. They're fully black, leather, comfortable, and a sort of a cross between structured shoe and trainer.
I'd highly recommend.

At my primary school the uniform was optional, at secondary school it was compulsory but relaxed compared with today. This was in the 1980s and 1990s. I would personally count your lucky stars that you don't have a school that has a pole up its arse about it like most of them now.

Surely not every single parent voted for it. Votes are never 100% all in favour. The ones getting snooty letters about something they didn’t vote for are going to feel a little aggrieved.

YANBU. I wouldn't let my dc wear the wrong shoes just because the school is a bit shit at enforcing their own uniform rules. I'm not actually in favour of school uniforms, but if a child goes to a school with uniform, they should wear it. Properly.

It’s about instilling discipline from an early age. Secondary schools are preparing children for becoming reasonably adjusted adults the real world. In the real world adults without any sense of discipline refusing to abide by simple rules and regulations is what leads to a gradual breakdown of respect in workplaces. Questioning school uniform wasn’t even a thing for previous generations because they weren’t entitled children being raised by entitled parents..

if the school aren’t enforcing their uniform rules, then I don’t see why you are so keen to. It’s overbearing and an unnecessary battle to pick.

Nobody takes any notice at Primary. I can find pictures from my son's yr 6 of the Head Boy and Girl not wearing the plain black shoes or trainers that they were supposed to wear.

Senior School is also hopeless at enforcing uniform, even though they introduced expensive pleated skirts that couldn't be rolled up to bum grazing levels.
Apparently, some children will only wear white socks ( from a parent on the school chat group) the school clearly state that it's supposed to be black socks only.

No uniform where we live.
No more discipline issues than average.
They're people, not minions to control.

Don’t be ridiculous, of course previous generations stretched the rules on uniforms. I even remember my Mum saying who’s 80 saying she tried to wear non-regulation shoes to school because the other girls were, until her Mum stopped her.

And on top of everything else, kids these days show no respect for the gods.

The gods?

Whatever the rules you always get arrogant kids/parents that break it.

My secondary school has a black footwear policy (not black shoes) so the kids can wear plain black trainers but the kids then wear other trainers.

Give and inch and they'll take a mile...

I have to phone parents when their kids are in the wrong uniform and the amount of parents that say "other kids wear them" as their excuse.