To not know how to talk to DD(11) about her weight?

[HippyKayYay]

Sorry this is a bit long.

The TLDR is: HELP - how do I handle an 11yo girl being a bit overweight and calling herself fat without giving her issues while at the same time making sure she doesn't gain more weight?

DD(11) is a bit overweight. I don't know what she weighs, but she carries a fair bit of weight on her tummy and clothes that fit in all other ways will be too tight on her waist. Periods haven't started yet, but she is pretty developed. She's always had a bit of a tummy, but it's become increasingly noticeable in the last 12 months.

We never talk about weight at home. I never talk about my body negatively, or about dieting or about food being 'fattening' or anything like that. However, DD is increasingly calling herself 'fat' or pointing out her 'big tummy' and I don't know what to say. If I say she's not, she calls me a liar. I try to talk about positive body image, but then she says 'so I am fat?!?' All her friends are very slim, so she also compares herself to them.

I really don't know how to approach it. My mum pointed out my 'puppy fat' at this age and said various other self-image-damaging things that took me a long time to get over. Is it ok to point out to her the relationship between nutrition and weight? How do I do it without implying she's overweight? I don't want to create food issues, but I'm not sure how much she's really aware of the cause-and-effect (despite it being covered loads in school).

Gentle/ covert changes at home in terms of diet and exercise haven't seemed to make any difference.

She doesn't do a lot of exercise (two after-school sports clubs + stuff in school) and isn't a naturally sporty or active person. Neither was I at her age. We've tried encouraging additional exercise, but she is very very resistant and told me the other night that every time we tell her she needs to get more exercise it makes her feel bad about herself and that's she's fat (we've never talked about exercise being related to weight loss and I know that weight loss is 99% diet anyway. We always associate it with positive mental health and just 'being healthy'). Family exercise (e.g. a walk or bike ride) on weekends is tricky because her younger brother does tons of sport (and is very slim) and he, reasonably I think, doesn't want to come home from 3hrs of sport on a Saturday morning to go on a walk.

Her diet is ok in terms of range, but she loves inherently 'fattening' things (butter, mayonaise, sweet food of any description, garlic bread, etc) and I feel like I'm always telling her to put less butter on her bread, etc. But she doesn't eat secretly or anything like that. I think they have a normal amount of treats/ junky food - she's not scarfing family packs of pringles or anything like that. I don't want to completely ban all sweet treats as then they become 'a thing'. The rest of the family is slim/ healthy weight.

So as not to drip feed. She is neurodivergent (we're going through the assessment process at the moment, but likely ADHD and possibly ASD too)

My son is type 1 diabetic, we were told by the dietician that a 12 year old should have between 250g and 280g carbs per day.
We have to weigh everything he eats due to his diabetes. Before we were aware of the recommendation he was easily eating 300-400 a day. His weight had naturally reduced since only allowing the recommended amount. He has ASD too so we showed him the charts and he learnt what he was allowed, which stopped the arguments.

At that age it’s your fault if she’s overweight. Sorry to be direct, but it’s true. No conversation needs to be had. Healthy food at home, healthy snacks and treats are something you have as a treat. That’s it.

Gosh, yes before I was diagnosed with PCOS (insulin sensitive) and became overweight, I never realised how prevalent carbs (often white) are in the typical western diet and how badly they can affect blood sugar. It seems quite typical for most people in the UK to have cereal or toast for breakfast, a sandwich for lunch and more carbs with their dinner in the evening (whether it be potato, rice or pasta).

And often you can add in a snack of a packet of crisps or a biscuit and sometimes something like a slice of cake for pudding too 🤣 When you think of the standard carb heavy British diet, it’s amazing we aren’t all much bigger!

@Wordau I totally agree about sport being only for the first team players in secondary. My DS is in specialist which hardly does any sport but we do the following to keep up his activity levels:
Inflatables sessions at the pool (v popular with younger teen boys), or just regular swimming for fun.
Clip and climb
Trampolining (also something the teen boys don't age out of it seems)
Dodgeball - there are a few areas that do this, it's only for children who are in no other sports club.
My DD is in a bike racing club which does tend to start at a young age but they move on to mountain biking later and you don't need to start that young.

Next time she says something about her weight, just say 'OK, should we eat something healthier for tea then'.

I don't think it will be long before she learns the two are linked- peers, science lessons? If she is bothered by her tummy and wants to lose weight, why not help her to do it in a healthy way?

How about substituting foods with less sugar and lower in fat? If those are her trigger foods.

I think it is doing our children a disservice when we don't educate them about healthy lifestyles and good diet. Why do you not want to teach her this in a non judgemental fashion? We don't expect teachers not to teach reading/writing just in case the child might be dyslexic. Why this rather widespread attitude that teaching food balance and general nutrition is wrong in case the child becomes anorexic?

But if she eats wholemeal pasta instead of white pasta it makes a big difference to the impact on her blood sugar (and in turn in what gets stored as fat)

Yes, it’s stuff like this that makes a big difference. We only have wholemeal pasta, it’s all that’s in the house. My kids have learnt this is ‘normal’ pasta that you eat at home and now when they go shopping themselves it’s all they buy. Of course when they eat out they will happily have a pasta dish of typical pasta but they know it’s a ‘occasional’ food you have when you go out only. If you eat 95% of your food at home and it’s all swapped for healthy choices and sensible portions, then you can have anything you want when you go out without thinking twice about it. And no, you don’t get an eating disorder from that……

you say she hasn’t started her period yet -
in the lead up to their period starting they will gain far more weight - which is healthy. They then grow a huge amount of height and then once starting their period their growth in height is nearly done ( works diff to boys )
ny daughter really filled out. She was very slim aways and then really filled out suddenly over a 6 months. She then stopped gaining weight and shot up from 134 cm to 154 cm in the space of 6 months and slimmed back out.
she then started her period and her height slowed down massively and had now reached adult height and been confirmed to have completed height.

She's 11 at that age DD put on weight by 13 she was seriously skinny as she shot up. If this is a new thing it may be preparation for a growth spurt.

If she's always been overweight it could be time for a nutrition discussion. Are you slim? If not try to change both your diets. Don't demonise food, for instance. I've noticed that some posters have already mentioned avoiding carbs. Unless you have a disorder that gets worse with carbs keep eating them but switch to wholemeal.

Drft, but I am a sugar monster, definitely worse when I'm stressed or tired.
I had gestational diabetes, unsurprisingly, I kept my weight gain under control using foor pairing, where you match grams of carb to at least half the grams of protein.
So a lump of cheese when eat a biscuit. Extra ham on a thin bread sandwich.
Mini babybel are very popular as easy to grab and eat one with a biscuit.
I know it sounds bonkers, and high fat, but my cholesterol came down and I lost weight while pregnant.

I need to start doing it again.

https://preventioncenter.health/food-pairing-a-simple-strategy-for-stabilizing-blood-sugar-and-lowering-oxidative-stress/

Maybe thars how you pitch it, stabilising your blood sugars.
All the folk on here who talk about cutting fats must have followed the RC low fat stuff, it's not actually the best way to eat.

Lunch at school can mean all sorts. If it is cashless she is probably buying sluces of pizza, sausage rolls etc. At secondary age there is no one telling them what they can and can't buy at break or lunch. I see kids buying a burger, a pizza and a cake at break!

It sounds like you can’t see the wood for the trees here, OP.

Don’t buy butter, mayo or garlic bread.

We don’t have any of these things in our house (not being sanctimonious, it’s just not stuff we buy). If you’ve identified multiple times that those foods are the problem, just don’t buy them. No one needs mayonnaise or garlic bread.

why does tuna have to = tuna mayo? What’s wrong with a tuna salad sandwich without mayonnaise? Or just a tuna salad for that matter.

Haven't rtft.
Explain that in puberty she will see lots of body changes, for girls that means more body fat, which helps their bodies support pregnancy in adulthood, while the boys will put on a lot of muscle. This is completely normal. That the pictures we see every day are not a real representation of what women look like, and that looking at what her teachers, people's parents or older siblings look like will give a more grounded idea of that. Also tell her it's normal to be very self conscious in adolescence and to negatively compare ourselves to others, but it doesn't actually mean we are no good - if we don't treat ourselves right and talk to ourselves positively in the mirror and love and care for ourselves, then we will let ourselves be treated badly by others. Self confidence starts with us. Tell her all bodies need our love and care to be healthy, that the food environment is not the best for us so it's up to us to choose healthful unprocessed foods often enough and in the right portions. Eating well and moving our bodies makes us feel good and makes our bodies work best.
I tended to tell dd1 that she and I were medium size, while dd1 was small, keeping it factual and non shaming to be a bigger size (why is it so shaming for a girl to be big or a boy to be small?)
The way you talk about yourself, the way you eat, whether you are constantly dieting will have a huge impact on your teen daughters body image too. Model self acceptance, pride, healthy attitudes to food and exercise, and overwhelming delight and pride in your daughter for everything that she is. And shift your focus away from her size and eating onto her skills, studies and talents as often as possible.

I would start a conversation after one of the moments you have when she said I'm fat you say you're not she says yes I am.
I would then say I don't believe you are fat I think you are and will always be beautiful but you keep saying you are fat how does it make you feel?
Get her view point on it and just listen with a few encouraging ok/yep/I see/umm/etc see if you can find out where it's coming from.
Then once she's finished talking I'd open up the conversation of so what can we do to move this forward for you as it must feel pretty exhausting putting your energy into something so negative. Again listen to her suggestions she might surprise you can come up with things you hadn't thought of.
Then also say things like different swim courses, mother and daughter walks/exercise, acting group, or treasure hunts with activities along the way, gardening etc
I really wouldn't push it much but find out what it making her sad and see if she can come up with the solution as she'll be more likely to stick with it and feel in control.

Take on more exercise as a family eg walks on a Saturday afternoon.

@HippyKayYay I really feel for you - it’s a really tough topic to manage, and I think a lot of posters don’t understand the interplay of food issues with ND. As it happens, my AuDHD DS is the opposite, and food is of no interest to him at all, so it is a battle to get him to eat anything.
But I have a friend with a DD in the exact same position as you (her DD is slightly younger), who also has the same concerns about “weight issues” having struggled with her own all her life. Her ASD DD obsesses about food all the time.
I really sympathise on the endless negotiating - this is where DS and I clash the most!!
The advice I offered to my friend is finding a nutritionist or dietician who understands neurodiverse conditions as well.

And I’m afraid a lot of it is down to just not being able to access the unhealthy stuff, even if that is inconvenient. DH has zero impulse control when it comes to food, and I’ve just had to stop stocking stuff because he will just eat it without even really noticing (he is also ADHD). You can get “really light” mayo, as an alternative - I know you’d prefer to have the “real” stuff and stay away from UPFs, but it has to be a balance.

If she sees herself as fat, ask her what she'd like to do maybe? Give her autonomy. If she doesn't like her tummy and wants to lose weight then maybe support her in creating a sensible diet plan?

If you say she isn't fat, then she's going to feel like you're lying to her or ignoring the issue. Talk about how she feels. If her clothes are tight around the tummy she knows she's not as thin as her friends. If she gets upset she's more likely to comfort eat too.

Keep her busy outside of meal times and have healthy snacks around. I can reach for the biscuits or crisps but I'm also happy with a bowl or raspberries or some carrot sticks.

And buy low-fat mayo...

Apologies in advance if this isn't helpful, but what I would honestly do is the coward's way out: lie! Tell the family that one of the adults is having, or could potentially have, a very minor health issue - nothing at all to worry about, but something that makes a few preemptive dietary changes seem a sensible option. Then change the food for the entire household. That way DD can begin to absorb/adapt to the principles of healthy eating as they are carried out within the home, but without her being the focus, and any conversation about her weight can be the open-ended kind you want to have. If telling the DC that a parent is having even a minor health issue would cause anxiety this obviously won't work, but perhaps you could have read an article on healthy eating etc...??

I do think there’s a lot to learn and understand but we tend to stick to the basics 🤣

boys start their journey later and it continues longer in terms of that growth spurt
girls tend to hit peak height and stop growing when their periods start ( will grow only a few more cm )
to prepare for this height during puberty spurt they will gain 3 x the amount of kilos in the the 2 years prior to their period. Once their period starts “ puberty is completed “ it’s such an Akward time to assess weight gain.

my daughter went through it early completed puberty by age 10, she is on the 99th centile for height and 60th centile for height ( healthy bmi )
but she won’t grow much now, and by the time she is 13 she will actually be low on the height chart and probably average out at 5ft 1 🤣 but currently looks like a giant to her class mates haha

she gained weight first though so there was a smal period of time where she was on the 50th centile for height and the 60th for weight until that peak spurt happened ! It was the highest her bmi has ever been.

NRTFT so apologies if it's moved on or this has been suggested!

My youngest son is in a similar boat. I managed to get him (and myself ) exercising more by introducing him to a mobile game called Pokemon Go. I gave him an old handset of mine as he didn't have a phone back then, we both downloaded it, and started going out on walks together to play it. We were walking 50-150km every week, out for hours every day over the summer (the winter was/is much harder). But it gave our walks a purpose and weight never got mentioned.

Do you think your daughter would like that? Would be a good chance for one on one time with her for whichever of you fancies taking up the game, there's a good excuse for your son not coming along on a "family walk" so she won't be seeing past that cover as to what it really is, and you might both find you really enjoy it! If you do, look to see if there's a local group that plays - I found that they all looked out for my son, would save him rare pokemon to trade, if he was out for a walk in his own whilst I was working, they'd just keep a watchful eye on him to make sure he was ok, etc and I've made some really lovely new friends!