To not know how to talk to DD(11) about her weight?

[HippyKayYay]

Sorry this is a bit long.

The TLDR is: HELP - how do I handle an 11yo girl being a bit overweight and calling herself fat without giving her issues while at the same time making sure she doesn't gain more weight?

DD(11) is a bit overweight. I don't know what she weighs, but she carries a fair bit of weight on her tummy and clothes that fit in all other ways will be too tight on her waist. Periods haven't started yet, but she is pretty developed. She's always had a bit of a tummy, but it's become increasingly noticeable in the last 12 months.

We never talk about weight at home. I never talk about my body negatively, or about dieting or about food being 'fattening' or anything like that. However, DD is increasingly calling herself 'fat' or pointing out her 'big tummy' and I don't know what to say. If I say she's not, she calls me a liar. I try to talk about positive body image, but then she says 'so I am fat?!?' All her friends are very slim, so she also compares herself to them.

I really don't know how to approach it. My mum pointed out my 'puppy fat' at this age and said various other self-image-damaging things that took me a long time to get over. Is it ok to point out to her the relationship between nutrition and weight? How do I do it without implying she's overweight? I don't want to create food issues, but I'm not sure how much she's really aware of the cause-and-effect (despite it being covered loads in school).

Gentle/ covert changes at home in terms of diet and exercise haven't seemed to make any difference.

She doesn't do a lot of exercise (two after-school sports clubs + stuff in school) and isn't a naturally sporty or active person. Neither was I at her age. We've tried encouraging additional exercise, but she is very very resistant and told me the other night that every time we tell her she needs to get more exercise it makes her feel bad about herself and that's she's fat (we've never talked about exercise being related to weight loss and I know that weight loss is 99% diet anyway. We always associate it with positive mental health and just 'being healthy'). Family exercise (e.g. a walk or bike ride) on weekends is tricky because her younger brother does tons of sport (and is very slim) and he, reasonably I think, doesn't want to come home from 3hrs of sport on a Saturday morning to go on a walk.

Her diet is ok in terms of range, but she loves inherently 'fattening' things (butter, mayonaise, sweet food of any description, garlic bread, etc) and I feel like I'm always telling her to put less butter on her bread, etc. But she doesn't eat secretly or anything like that. I think they have a normal amount of treats/ junky food - she's not scarfing family packs of pringles or anything like that. I don't want to completely ban all sweet treats as then they become 'a thing'. The rest of the family is slim/ healthy weight.

So as not to drip feed. She is neurodivergent (we're going through the assessment process at the moment, but likely ADHD and possibly ASD too)

It's pretty typical for girls that age to put on weight. Is she tall for her age? My dd was the same and I was struggling to get school skirts, then over 6 months she grew about 3inches in height and completely slimmed out again.

Replace white carbs with wholemeal where you can - bread, rice, pasta. this will help stop her being constantly hungry. Reduce her portions, IME people who are over weight are almost always eating portions that are too big. Don't allow snacking in between meals. What is your idea of a 'normal' amount of treats?

Thank goodness for this.
I would replace your mayo too with one that doesn't contain seed oils. Hunt & gather do one.

I'm wondering if she's lacking fat soluble vitamins. D perhaps? And so craving more fat.

My son grew outwards for two years. His diet and activity levels hadn't changed. He knew he was fat and doesn't enjoy looking back over photos BUT he shot up overnight and was suddenly tall and skinny.

This.

At 10/11/12 girls are often a bit chubby, then the grow, they get their period and settle into their normal size and height.

@HippyKayYay does your dd have a period yet? How developed is she, does she and has she had one of the bigger growth spurts yet?

She will probably slim out when she goes through puberty, especially if she isn’t eating very unhealthily. I would let her find her own way but you should make sure she is informed (without making it specifically about her). Staying at a healthy weight all your life is not straightforward or easy for most people, so there isn’t much point in pretending it is. She will find this out whatever approach you take.

I think, especially if she has a big tummy, nasty comments have been made at school. Even the odd one will go deep. However much you try and protect her, to have a positive body image and to not treat certain food as 'bad', she's not happy NOW. She seems well aware that her body isn't quite 'normal'.

I would focus on her getting to a place where she feels happier with her size:

• Cutting snacks, healthier food choices on main meals
• New clothes which fit well and look good

I would frame this as: You are not happy. What would make you feel happier? (Being slimmer, looking better, feeling better). OK, I can help you with that. What ideas do you have? Here's some ideas I have to. It might be too much to do them all, but what would you like to do? I can help you do the ones you'd like to.

I don't think tiptoeing around will be helping her.

My mum pointed out my 'puppy fat' at this age and said various other self-image-damaging things that took me a long time to get over.
And are you still chubby?

I wouldn't say anything at all, just be positive and reassure her. Tell her she will grow and get slimmer and that our bodies change throughout our lives the important thing is to eat fewer UPF as they have additives our bodies can't cope with and enjoy cooking and eating healthily.

She does 2 sports clubs out of school, that's more than many, what are these sports? The key is to keep busy, walk to school, walk to friends houses, rather than be drive, we are all sedentary now compared to previous generations.

She's only 11, I see you said no period yet but developed, so she will shoot up and lose weight. Is she at your height yet OP? Unless her dad is super short, your dd will grow a similar height to you or slightly taller. Leave her be but be very supportive and reassuring. No-one needs their mother to pile on the pressure about weight, it never works out, I know because all my friends and my dc fernfriends whose mothers had issues around their dd's weight have serious body image problems, struggle with eating and weight. As mothers we need to check ourselves, why is it a problem dd is a bit chubby? Are we embarrassed? So much shame around this issue.

Also tell your dh not to buy all that sweet stuff.

As it's genetic, is your husband also ADHD, or yourself? It could be in play with both of your behaviours.

Are you receiving help for her there? I follow several autistic people with eating issues on Insta and you're right to be very careful.

You're in charge of yourself. You're the mother now, not the daughter, and I think you're focussing on your own memories. Time to put that behind you and maybe get some help with dealing with your past.

If you're in charge of the kitchen, have a proper look at the current cupboard contents, and your regular shopping.

What are you in the habit of buying? Stop buying the high fat, high sugar, low nutrition products and replace with better, without making a big deal. Your sporty son doesn't need any of it either; he also needs the healthy stuff for fuel and growth.

You're in charge of your own child's eating. Give her a packed lunch, or better, get her to make it with you. Maybe explain you're saving money for Christmas, for a holiday.

Does she actually need to take money to school? Crisps and sweets are too easily accessible. If it's on sale at school, speak to the head and ask for healthy changes.

In your conversations, I wouldn't use the word fat. Or chubby. Or plump. Any of it. And I hated the term 'puppy fat' accompanied by the poking finger (also the 'ugh, spotty-chops' remarks; but that's a different conversation).

And don't weigh her. Used to make me feel like a slab of beef. Go with her general look and energy.

But definitely talk health and fitness and wellbeing and activity as a normal part of family interests, not a 'special' conversation.

I haven't read the whole thread but I wonder whether it would be helpful for uou to talk with her about growth spurts and her body getting ready for puberty.
Children in that age range often go out a bit before they go up and before they start to enter puberty. The body needs energy for a growth spurt. And the aim shouldn't be to lose weight but more to make sure she is moving and eating in a balanced way so that the body can use the stores it has but down to help grow and instigate puberty.
Rather than 'being fat' her body is 'getting ready to grow taller'
Absolutely don't weigh her

You might also think about what you can add to her diet to help her by full and nourished on nutritious food, so rather than removing things ( and therefore making them more desired and her feeling guilt for wanting them) you add in things that will fill her tummy for longer so that she isn't craving extra fats/sugars - porridge for breakfast, extra slices of chicken, eggs etc

I also wonder whether you can just add in more movement incrementally - get off the bus a bit early because you need to get something from the shop, or you and her go to the shops for some presents but walk around lots, go ice skating for fun, etc. don't make it 'exercise' just make life more active through more physical fun

Mayo. Hmm. Tuna is one of the proteins she eats regularly and happily. If it wasn't tuna mayo, it would probably be cheese or ham. So I think the mayo in the tuna is offset by the benefits of the tuna's protein

You do know that you don’t have to have tuna with mayo though right? We have tuna (in spring water) without mayo, generally added to a tossed salad or some such. I think some of my kids (now adult) eat it straight from the can, those small sandwich size cans. Other than that we do tuna tossed in with some pasta and veg, you can do that hot or cold. Mayo is not obligatory.

Thanks for all the messages which I’ve just seen.

Some quick answers -
No, I’m not ‘chubby’ now. At all. Size 8/10 fwiw. I eat very healthily. DH less so (can eat what he wants and not gain weight and isn’t that interested in food. If I didn’t cook for he and I, he’d live on toast and pasta). DS very slim, not that interested in food but also going through a very fussy ‘beige’ food phase.
-DH makes their evening meals (I’m working) and he’s neither a good nor imaginative cook. So often defaults to the easy options of eg sausages (once a week), eggs on toast, etc.
-Yes DD is tall for her age. The height of many grown women (I’d guess 5’3”). No period yet. Developed breasts though.
-She doesn’t have big portions really. Would eat maybe a third of a chicken breast? Will often leave food on her plate. But loves carbs and sweets and will always prioritise those.
-She really isn’t sporty. She struggles with coordination and balance. Hates dance (which all her skinny pals love), can’t really hit a ball. Tried fencing at the one local option and didn’t like it (to be fair, it was a really weird vibe). Will swim or walk if I take her. Will jump on trampoline if I stand next to it telling her what to do. We live semi-rurally so walks after dinner in the winter just aren’t feasible!
-the ND stuff. It’s inattentive adhd. The hyperactivity is mental, not physical. I agree on the food as dopamine hit. Eg she’s allowed to buy one sweet treat at school each week and she spends all week talking about what it’s going to be (and negotiating for more). If I say we’re going to the cinema, she will ask if she can buy/ take sweets before she asks what film we’re seeing. Etc. It’s just an endless negotiation around sweet shit and I’m always saying ‘no’ and then she gets upset and it becomes ‘a thing’. Ad fucking nauseum. It’s exhausting.

I was thinking this, as I was reading the thread

There seems to be a fixation by the OP on making sure the things the OP likes.... are available in the fridge, like butter and mayo

I'd definitely be removing anything inherently fat filled completely and or replacing them with low fat options

Your daughter has asked you if you think she's fat and you haven't answered her although you DO think she's fat

You need to have a conversation with her about how people put on weight and how being overweight can cause illnesses

Why don't you and your daughter exercise together 4 times a week? Do the couch to 5k, for example. Together

Extra exercise plus removing fat filled foods from the house and instructing your husband to stop enabling poor food choices.....I reckon in 6 months you'll see a real difference

Oh my lord people, fat doesn't make you fat! Mayo isn't inherently unhealthy if you just have a bit of it now and again. DD will only eat tuna with mayo, so if I get rid of the tuna she'd be having something arguably less 'healthy'.

Stop fixating on the mayo! It was just an example of the types of food she is drawn to and will overeat if allowed to. I'm not letting her sit there spooning it onto white bread.

And yes of course I know you don't need to eat tuna with mayo. When I eat it, I eat it without mayo (because I don't really like mayo). But DD will only eat it with mayo

It sounds like she could be addicted to the fat in butter and mayo. You can replace mayo with crème freche for mixing with tuna. I would replace the butter with an olive oil or plant based spread that is less appealing to her if you can find one. She could have full fat unsweetened yogurt to get protein and fat with some nuts as a snack that should keep her full

But anyway, looking past the mayo, thank you for those who have given some really helpful perspectives and tips above. A lot of it is conflicting, but I'll work through it.

My big take-away is how to be more 'honest' with her/ respond to her concerns in a more genuine way without doing what my mother did to me (weighing me, or 'pinching an inch' of my tummy. I really wasn't 'fat', btw and I slimmed out at about 14)

If I were you I would try to forget about it for at least a year. It may sort itself out. Tell her she is gorgeous as often as you can without being weird!! If she likes swimming, encourage life saving classes or advances swimming leasons to perfect her strokes. Encourage a saturday job that is physical work when she is old enough.
Being a bit plump is not a big problem. An eating disorder is a huge problem.

I'm not sure if it's about 'honesty' as such your mother seems to have been honest and it damaged you. It's about emotional intelligence and facts. Fact is your dd will grow, fact is 10/11/12 old girls become bit chubby before they shoot up, they have to have a minimum of body body fat to start their period, tell her these facts in a reassuring way while acknowledging that she may feel confused and uncomfortable about how her body is changing. Tell her that nearly all girls feel like this and it's ok, she'll get through it. Do not mention her weight or propose changes in eating habits. Most girls are absolutely fine eating a bit of crap in the school canteen. Leave her be but be kind and understanding. Then watch her slim out at about 14.

Also, think carefully about how you are falling into the trap of repeating history. Your mother damaged your confidence, you have the power to just support your dd. most 11 year olds do not need to lose weight.

What is she doing while your D’s is doing 3 hours of sport? Can’t her activity time be planned for then (swimming, walking etc) rather then expecting him (which you’ve mentioned may not be easy or reasonable) to join in after his sport

Re being honest. Be very careful! I don't think I would say yes you're overweight. Its such a sensitive age and she will remember all your words. Maybe you could say eg: "yes Molly is very slim but you have those dark eyes and such a beautiful face and your hair is so shiny ... it's always the first thing I notice when I spot you in a crowd."
Everything you say about her appearance should be loving.

I think this is a good idea.

But - I will say, that everything you've said does sound like puppy fat. Maybe if you can honestly track her calories for a week or so and see if it's over what she should be having, you'll have a better idea? She's absolutely ripe for going into puberty and all the lumpy bits will start to redistribute, she'll probably get taller as well. At 11, and no periods yet, like you say I wouldn't want to start her worrying about her weight.

Oh my lord people, fat doesn't make you fat

Well.....yes it does. Depending on the type of fat and how much you eat.

Fat is very calorie dense and excess calories make you fat

I'm sorry that you're snippy about it, but if your daughter would eat butter off a spoon if you allowed her, then she is getting a dopamine hit from fat

And if she won't eat tuna without mayo, same again

She also appears to get a dopamine hit from sugar

I'm wondering how much she understands about how the body reacts to fat and sugar

At 11 you are still responsible for what she eats. If she helps herself to things in the fridge and cupboards either tell her that's not allowed or if you think that will upset her then just don't buy unhealthy things into the house.

Make swaps to wholemeal -bread, pasta, rice

Encourage her to snack on fruit if she's hungry between meals.

If you need to have mayonnaise in make it the low fat kind, the same with butter.

Don't offer high fat/calorie foods with meals like garlic bread, have a side salad she can help herself to.

If buying food at school is an issue, send her with a packed lunch instead. At 11 she's not earning her own money, she's spending money that you give to her.

It is going to be easier tackling weight issues now and encouraging health eating habits whilst you're responsible for what she eats rather than when she's old enough to choose for herself.

Some good advice here.
In our household nobody is overweight (we are size 12/M and kids are very skinny). We eat very little carbs except of some rice/flatbreads and occasional pasta. Meal examples:
Breakfast us: porridge with fruit + kefir / kids: egg sandwich/brioche + sausage
Lunch: noddles/pasta/cornish pastry
Dinner (everybody): home-made chicken/veg curry with 1/2 of plate of salad OR roast salmon OR roast chicken.
Veggies are always 1/2 of the plate.
Snacks are nuts, bananas or apples.

No potatoes, no crisps, no white bread (!), no chocolate, no sweets, no mayo, ketchup is rare. Treats are occasional e.g. 1 packet per week shared.
Occasional lollipop.
That's it. Try it.

She really isn’t sporty. She struggles with coordination and balance. Hates dance (which all her skinny pals love), can’t really hit a ball. Tried fencing at the one local option and didn’t like it (to be fair, it was a really weird vibe). Will swim or walk if I take her. Will jump on trampoline if I stand next to it telling her what to do.

A cousin (very like your daughter sounds, including the food interest and lack of sporting interest) was diagnosed very late in life with dyspraxia. She was also super intelligent (I mean could have done O-levels at ten years old) and bored.