To be fed up with an education system that ignores bright but quiet kids.

[ButterMints]

DD9 came home last night upset because once again her efforts in class had been ignored.

The teacher in the class had awarded class points to kids who had "worked hard in maths".

DD had got every question correct but didn't get a point. Points were awarded to children who didn't get 100%.

This seems to be a pattern with both my kids, where they are consistently ignored in favour of loud but less successful children.

My older child left primary school last year frustrated and disillusioned with school, having spent much of the time in class reading whilst others caught up with the work that they had already completed. And in their words, "I get 100% on my practice SATS papers every time and get nothing, but the kids who go from 50% to 60% get all the rewards."

I get it, I really do. Teachers have finite resources. But as a parent it's incredibly frustrating to once again find myself reassuring my child that their efforts do not go unnoticed.

It's a sad reflection of an education that is letting children down across the board. Schools desperately need more funding so that ALL children can reach their full potential.

It could be worse- bright and ignored and getting 100% means they’ll probably be ok.

My eldest is bright, well behaved and has been in the ‘overlooked’ camp- so much so that they seemingly missed she probably has dyslexia. Her teacher this year spotted immediately she had an issue and we’re going down the testing route. Last year was all about crowd control in her class and I think it did really damage her self esteem that she just wasn’t noticed at all.

It really pissed her off that some of the properly naughty kids got more star of the weeks than she did. It really messes with their sense of right and wrong when they see bad behaviour rewarded.

I've found it gets better in secondary school where they have house points etc which they give out for good work etc and more sanctions for bad behaviour, not doing homework etc.

Entirely depends on the teacher IMO. My DC now no longer go to prize ceremonies. They are exceeding across the curriculum and find the prize star of the week BS wholly frustrating. Teach your kid star of the week and badges are, as a PP poster has said, a behavioural tool.

The extension thing is more concerning. Both my kids get extension work beyond normal extension work. Ask for their standardised scores. Once we knew DC were actually categorised as gifted, school had to evidence their development. The language teacher got hold of some GCSE resources for KS2 and likewise with Maths, they stepped it up beyond one or two extra questions per lesson.

But resources are yes, limited in a state school in most instances so you have to be ON IT with school.

Exams are to test knowledge too. If a person processes slower, has dyslexia etc it makes sense that they get more time. They may know the content better than another student but have a condition that makes it harder for them get it down, which shouldn’t disadvantage them. Pretty shit if you think it should. Thankfully education, work settings and the law have recognises this, even if you don’t.

Well, anybody with an ounce of common sense can see that a class size of 30 is far too big. It’s the “standard” in our state schools and we’ve been brainwashed into thinking it is ok. Rather like we have been brainwashed into not expecting a necessary operation the following week. None of this crap is ok. It’s embarrassing for a first world country.

I sent my bright, awkward, quiet, autistic child to a private school. Class sizes were 15. He was able to get help without disrupting the rest of the class. He has excellent GCSEs and A Levels - worked like a dog.

I’m lucky DS is an adult. Because Labour are out to destroy the private sector. My DS got extra time as well. Because i paid for the educational psychologist, learning support etc. There are thousands of kids like my DS. The private sector and the stuff parents are paying for (thousands in my case to educational psychologists, SALT, occupational therapy etc) is lifting a huge burden off the state - and Labour seem to want to destroy this. Utter fuckwits.

I fully believe that there are classrooms in third world countries with virtually no facilities (perhaps even not classrooms - just a roof and supports where learning is more effective than many of our schools.

We are in a huge mess. Launching an assault on the private sector is going to make it even worse.

I think my kids school does it quite well, they all get an award once a term which is for a specific thing they have done well, whether achievement, perseverance, improvement, kindness, different for each child (well the same things do get repeated but it's not just an award for the sake of it). Then they also have genuine awards that most children don't get. These are for a variety of things not just academic.

My quiet, well behaved child still only gets one award right at the end of each term. But the potential is there for her to get something genuine!

I do think rewarding all children is important. Someone shouldn't be written off at 6 because they are mediocre at academic subjects - all children do genuinely have things they are good at which should be recognised. However they should make sure they don't neglect the ones that behave themselves. And badly behaved kids should only get rewards specifically for improvement - not for good behaviour if it isn't actually that good.

I agree that it does get better at secondary. They will more likely find their tribe, especially in a really good school. There are more children in the year groups and setting comes in to play, which as long as movement is possible I think benefits most children. My DC1 who was a complete outlier at primary is still absolutely flying at secondary, but now has a group of friends of similar abilities but varying interests, and her classes are more often challenging and usually interesting. Achievement is directly celebrated - academic, creative/arts, and sporting (not that we've seen any sports accolades! 😆) . As is improvement and effort, genuinely.

Primary was actually a great school, but I still can't get over the feeling of them being held back. And how in a few short years we've gone from frustratingly repeating yet another way to add two two digit numbers, to the kind of maths I am struggling to follow 😆 But I also understand the limitations at primary. There is no easy answer.

So what's the solution?

I'm sure your DC will sail through life, leave school with excellent qualifications, get a good degree from a redbrick uni and then end up in a good job making good money.

Why do you need a piece of paper from school just to prove what you and the teachers already know: that your kid is better than the kid with SEN or behaviour problems who will struggle throughout their whole life and will likely achieve 10% of what your kid will.

Teach your DC that things like star of the week are nice but ultimately meaningless and getting 100% is its own reward.

"Schools desperately need more funding so that ALL children can reach their full potential." sorry was this a bit of a dig at private school parents? ALL members of society are responsible for education - not just a few. How would you like it if I said you now have to pay thousands of pounds extra a year because you have decided to do X years ago.
I am both a state school parent and a private school parent (because of SEN). My SEN daughter is in yr 13 - we'll pay 2 semesters of tax for her and then we'll stop paying. It would make more sense if we continued paying - if all the population continued paying for a better education service.
Yes there are kids at mega wealthy private schools - but there are also many many kids at local private schools for reasons of bullying or SEN. You are worried about your bright child not getting enough attention because other kids are getting the encouragement? You wait a few years when people who would have put their SEN kids into private now decide to stay in state and this problem is going to get even worse for you.
We rent - but it is worth it for our daughter with SEN needs to get an education - her private school facilities are not as fancy as her brother's who goes to the free local high school.

How on earth did you take that as an attack on private education? What on earth is wrong with you?

I was talking about the fact that my bright children are not pushed to meet their potential. I made no mention of private schools. Wind your neck in.

Standard mainstream school with an ARP.
Children who needed significant learning support used to go to the ARP to give them an intense boost (1 teacher, 2-3 TA's for 6-8 children), and would either rejoin their year group after a year in ARP if caught up to their age range of learning, or an EHCP and specialist placement sought if needs were greater, was a fantastic resource. But now there are children in the ARP who should definitely be in a special school placement, not toilet trained at 7, working at age of 2 years or lower, huge behavioural challenges, which means the children who used to benefit from the ARP no longer do so. The infant school managed to get funding for 2 years for an additional class to meet their needs, but budget cuts mean that this will end this year, leaving those children struggling in a standard mainstream classroom which doesn't meet their needs, having a negative impact on both them and their peers, and on staff wellbeing.

My kids are at Private and in no way did I see that as an attack.
To be fair Private school parents often get a lot of stick on here but that post wasn't an example of it

Exactly! The way some people are talking on here, you’d think they were given extra time for fun. I’m sure anyone with a child with SEN would much prefer their child not to need extra time if it meant they didn’t have difficulties. Sadly and evidently, not everyone is as sensible as you.

Absolutely! 20 is a good number for a class, with a teacher and 1 or 2 skilled TA's. Enough children that there is variety, debate competition and ability to hopefully find some like minded children, but not so many that children get lost and the teacher is overstretched.
My girls were both fortunate to have around 20 in their classes in infants and both made huge progress. This has gone up to around 30 for my oldest in juniors and the difference is huge, her progress is much slower as the teacher is trying to teach a much wider range of children, including around 10 who went to a different infants with a vastly different ethos, much lower behaviour standards. If we could afford private for her we would, not for her to mingle with the 'posh people' as many would suggest, but to enable her to reach her own individual potential, whatever that may be.

Actively suggesting that children with SEN shouldn’t get any help or extra time etc is absolutely disgusting. Discrimination against disability and special needs is appalling. Let’s causally forget that point though eh and make no comment about that….

We really struggled with this in secondary school. Dd is very intelligent and well behaved.

Some children were given 'rewards' for handing their homework in, attending classes, not getting demerits. Meanwhile the kids doing these things all the time were never rewarded and lots of telling the whole class off.

It’s discriminating against people with disabilities that’s the issue.

Would you expect an employer not to make any provisions for adults with disabilities? Are you of the opinion that reasonable adjustments should NOT be made to enable everyone to have a reasonable amount at succeeding? That’s ultimately what you’re inferring.

It's so unfair. All children want and need recognition whatever their abilities, but good and compliant children are so often overlooked.

I was that child and I still remember how that felt. My daughter is now that child and I've tried to explain that everyone is different and that working hard and good work is relative but it's sad to see her crestfallen. There's also a very real danger that at some point some of these children just give up, because what's the point?

What on earth? It’s not about any child being ‘better’ than another, it’s about recognising their achievements.

Some kids have SEN and are academic and behave well. One of my children has autism, is very academic and behaves perfectly following very rule. As much as I tried to teach her that star of the week was meaningless when she was constantly overlooked because she was such an easy child at school, it wasn’t to meaningless to her. In my child’s eyes it was important because it was awarded by the teachers that she looked up to and my child’s autism meant that it was hard for her to cope when things were not fair and just.

Why can’t schools just acknowledge all children, including those that consistently do well and behave well. Those children need to be motivated too.

Nailed it!!!

Comparing extra time in exams to special allowances being made in the work place is wrong.

My DD had extra time in her GCSEs due to processing issues. She struggled al the way through school but worked so hard.

She managed to get enough GCSE level 4/5 passes to get on the college course she wanted to do and she is coping absolutely fine with the academic work and assignments. No exams on this course which will suit her down to the ground. She is learning the practical skills for the job she wants to do ( police officer)

She also has a part time job in a busy restaurant and has no problem doing whatever is required of her there. She is well thought of and is complemented for her customer service skills and work ethic.

She is a police cadet and recently won an award for her voluntary work with them.

She won't need any special arrangements to do the job of a police officer but she did need that extra time to help her get the GCSE results that were required for the job. I don't understand why anyone has a problem with that and it takes nothing away from your very clever kid's achievements.

Your daughter sounds fab and you should be proud! I hope she gets to be a police officer. Ignore those that have no real understanding of why kids get extra time.

I totally the quiet child who gets on with it and performs well is ignored. I think there is validity in the points about the support given ie extra time etc etc. It seems that so much emphasis is given to those children who are under achieving without letting the able achieve their true potential.

This is a common problem.

Kids who are academic are treated very poorly, no resources put into challenging them or helping them achieve their potential.

And it does have real consequences - bright kids who don't have to work hard either become demotivated underachievers, or when they do need to work hard - which happens eventually - they have no study habits and don't know how to work effective.

So they are effectively being made worse academically because no one thinks they are worth bothering about.

YY to the post above.

Another thing my daughter said tonight- “sometimes I wish I wasn’t bad at schoolwork because although I would probably be disappointed with the marks I got, at least I’d be challenged every day”.

She is bright but not some exceptional genius: I don’t think she has ever felt academically stretched at school as they are always teaching to the bottom. Maybe an extra maths sheet when she finished the one they are all meant to do. She didn’t mind when she was little but now she is bored - I am really worried that her frustration will turn into disengagement and loss of love for learning.