To be fed up with an education system that ignores bright but quiet kids.

[ButterMints]

DD9 came home last night upset because once again her efforts in class had been ignored.

The teacher in the class had awarded class points to kids who had "worked hard in maths".

DD had got every question correct but didn't get a point. Points were awarded to children who didn't get 100%.

This seems to be a pattern with both my kids, where they are consistently ignored in favour of loud but less successful children.

My older child left primary school last year frustrated and disillusioned with school, having spent much of the time in class reading whilst others caught up with the work that they had already completed. And in their words, "I get 100% on my practice SATS papers every time and get nothing, but the kids who go from 50% to 60% get all the rewards."

I get it, I really do. Teachers have finite resources. But as a parent it's incredibly frustrating to once again find myself reassuring my child that their efforts do not go unnoticed.

It's a sad reflection of an education that is letting children down across the board. Schools desperately need more funding so that ALL children can reach their full potential.

People saying this is why they go private, or that private is the only way around this. What is it that changes, there must be a range of abilities still? It can't just be class size as we've experienced small class sizes in state school too. Is it as simple as the class has self selected to be from motivated families and SEN is less of an issue in an average class making teaching it easier?

@30percent Your OH obviously went to school somewhere far away from me! Around here, getting extra time for high school is a huge process - he's only in year 9 and we're already in discussions with SENCO for how to make this happen!

For primary it's a bit more flexible in some ways, but even then, in DS' case it required quite a lot of effort and lobbying on the part of his teacher!

I probably am still viewing this through the eyes of a child though I'm younger than a lot on this site and still remember the frustration of studying hard all week just for the kid who only bit the teacher once instead of his usual three times to be awarded star of the week 😂

I think the smaller class size is part of it. Plus private schools have a different approach - they have to sell themselves more. So they are rewarded more for better academic results than a state primary school, for example. Good academic results at Year 6 - and lots of children who can get into selective schools for high school wehther state or private - makes them more desirable and improves their brand.

They also have additional resources so an improved teacher/child ratio which means teachers ahve more time to think about how to challenge the more able children or support the less able ones. They can stream more, even at the younger age and deliver lessons targeted to different ability levels. They have more resources to access online or physical tools to improve learning and, often, to enhance the learning experience.

Sometimes your kid will be praised for their results, but it’s equally important that other kids get praised for their hard work - even if it doesn’t result in 100% scores. If we only praised the brightest kids in schools is Mrs shitting all over others whom, through no fault of their own, aren’t as bright. I don’t really want to live in a world like that. I think there’s room for both

My niece is on a school teaching programme and has been told to deliver work to the level of the lowest students in the classroom! Might explain much.

If that’s her understanding then I suggest she leaves. Under no circumstances has she been told to do that. Hopefully she’s just explained a concept such as ‘accessible to all’ badly to you.

My DDs left Primary school feeling invisible.

Secondary has been fantastic in comparison. A lot of their "house points" are awarded against unobjective criteria, so a quiet, hardworking child can accumulate them easily.

The issue with Primary school award schemes, with the star of the week or stickers etc... they are fantastic for those who get the awards. But the overlooked children can get real damage to their self esteem. Its easy to say that doing well is an award... but it doesn't feel like that.

My son has just started year 7 and they have a system where if a student attends all week and has no behaviour points, they're given 5 achievement points. I think this was or

Argh! Probably put in place to ensure the good but quieter kids are rewarded.

Getting 100% in your sats of whatever is a more substantial reward than praise. Your bright children are ultimately luckier than the less bright ones receiving the praise.

I don't think that is necessarily the case at all. Someone might work really really hard and get 100%, and someone else might not bother and get 50%.

Yes some children will get 100% without trying, and others will work really hard to get 50%, but I don't think you can say that children getting 50% must be working harder than those getting 100%.

Mind you we were given the same message from dd's GCSE maths teacher - who told us she didn't like to challenge the kids too much - she wanted them to have a lovely maths class, so she stayed away from the hard stuff. I suggested it wasn't too lovely for them when they failed their exams because they weren't prepared for the hard questions. There's a reason why tutors are thriving in our area.

I remember being quite pissed off as I won the Year Prize in reception for being best all round, but in years after that a boy always won as he was brilliant at Maths and I wasn't.

I couldn't get a progress prize as I always did my best.

One lovely teacher gave me a special Class Prize when M got the Year Prize yet again- it's a lovely illustrated cat poem anthology. I still have it with her inscription. The Year Prize was only a book token anyway, this was much more personal and it was something she knew I'd like.

If I felt like DDs were being overlooked at primary school I'd just drop the teacher an email - gently and kindly worded.

I will never forget the awful day I had as a supply teacher in a class with about 6 really naughty boys. They were terribly behaved all day. I felt so sorry for the rest of the children as 95% of my time was spent trying to get them to behave and do some work. At the end of the day I was incredulous when the TA brought out the reward charts for these kids and listed daft reasons why they deserved stickers. And then because they'd then filled the charts they were then allowed to choose a toy. So all these kids who'd made my life hell and the lives of 24 other kids hell went home happy and with toys and the other kids got nothing. I could not believe that this was the system in this school! I refused to do supply there again.

There is a fine line because as previous posters have said, for some children academics come easily and getting top marks in a spelling test is no effort at all because they already know how to spell all the words without needing to learn them. Whereas another child might know none of them at the beginning of the week so might practice before and after school all week and get 9 out of 10. Really that achievement is 'better' than the other child's 10 out of 10 because they have worked so hard to achieve it. But obviously the child who gets them all right will not know that and does deserve their score to be celebrated too. It is hard to be a teacher and to get it right and be fair to all the kids.

I can't speak for others but at my DC's school they reward effort and attainment equally but the classes are so much smaller and they have so many more resources that its not too difficult. The entire ethos is around "the whole child"
I think that what made us REALLY think we had made the right decision is when DD was called a "swot" in her first week there the other DC rounded on the person who said it rather than join in, which had been the case at her Primary school
I appreciate that selective Private schools are set up purely around attainment but ours isn't.

I encouraged my kids to take pride in their own achievements and not rely on others for validation or reward. And maybe they did still crave recognition but given they don’t always get it - a person is stronger by not being heavily affected when they don’t get it.

It is sad. I think a balance needs to be found.

This isn't always true. I got 50%-60% in my mock exams as in my head they didn't count so why bother. I then got 80-90% in the real exams as I put in the effort. My brother got 50-60% in both as he was fairly smart but put in very little effort. Assuming that children who get the highest grades acheive them through just luck/talent is incorrect, there is usually a high level of effort involved too.

Children should be praised for effort, improvement ( whether thats moving from 40-60% or 75 to 95%) and overall attitude towards their learning and their classmates.

Same, my oldest (year 4) is in a class of 20. But in that class there is children on sane reading level as her younger sister (year 1) and a few slightly ahead at year 5 level. How on earth a teacher is supossed to effectively the needs of children working at levels across 5 year groups is beyond me. Any child working at more than a year below their expected age, should be getting support in a setting which meets their specific learning needs, rather than teachers having to stretch the curriculum across such a wide range of abilities

Reading this is like watching people complain that their athletic child isn’t getting as many claps when they come first in the race - and being disgruntled that the teacher gives more claps to a child that struggles to wake let alone run.

As a parent id be explaining to my very successful academic bright child that not every finds it as easy as them and praise them myself.

Of course we don’t really know if any of the above is true as no one can know exactly what the teachers says to all the children… I’m sure when the teacher hands back their piece of work they will say well done.

Yes, as adults we can reason that this is true.
But for a 6 year old, it's much harder for them to understand this. They are all about the here and now. They aren't going to wake up and think "I am absolutely fine with never winning anything in class despite working really hard because in 24 years when I'm 30 i will get a jolly good job because I'm bright'.
They think 'Billy hit me, tore up my work and mucked around all lesson, and then got a load of stickers. I quite like stickers so I am going to copy Billy and get them" and then they find out if they do that they get told off rather than getting stickers as their teacher has different expectations of them to Billy so their next thought is "my teacher must give Billy stickers because she likes him more than me, what's wrong with me". We went through this with our 6 year old, got called I to discuss her change in behaviour, and that 'she needs to have more intrinsic motivation'.
Adults make bad choices with their fully developed brains, complain about life being sooooo unfair etc. But somehow we expect young brains to perfectly reason these concepts, it's ridiculous

This is the “leave no child behind” approach to education. Everyone knows no child should be left behind. But when resources are scarce, it means all children (if their only educational input is school) can only go as fast as the ‘slowest’ learner. Many parents can’t or won’t support their children at school, so the bar is set as low as those children are achieving.

You can’t fault the teachers. You can’t fault the principle. It’s lack of resources. And why we have been private from the get go. Our school has the resources to ensure that every child is met where they are: small class sizes; teachers who are paid well; shorter terms/longer leave for teachers; parents who are vested because they pay hefty fees every year; no child left behind AND every child challenges to beyond where they are (wherever that is). It works, and it’s morally indefensible that this isn’t available to all. It’s one of the biggest contributors to the polarization of society imo.

Part of the problem with not rewarding achievement is that some of the bright kids are also prone to bad behaviour especially in the wrong environment.
my dsis was very bright and went to state 45+ years ago for a couple of years. She picked up reading fast and then sat not doing anything. Her home behaviour deteriorated. She moved private and improved.
My eldest is bright but has behavioural issues. State primary just doesnt have the staff levels needed at reception age.
At dc school the star of the week is whoever the teacher feels like there is no reason its not the badly behaved or clever or hard working. Completely unmotivating.
There are 0 rewards based on effort or achievement.

Secondary seem like they have rewards but as they donr really mark homework its still not based on achievement...

Im not sure re effort its only known by the child or perhaps parents. The teacher certainly doesnt know or care how much effort went into spellings. So youngest spending say 15 min a week on spellings then getting 8 on the tests where she was getting 10 the night before. I zee as an issue as she should be getting higher. But eldest was getting 9-10 but we didnt even review words at home. How much time etc would represent how much effort? Some kids might be spending an hour a week to get their 10/10. Oldest takes 1hr to do her sparx maths but ots because she doesnt concentrate. And itsnt makong more effort than a chood taking 20min. In fact probably less effort as shes messing around.
Mine got 120 on spag in sats but actually made least effort in that test vs the other sats. Though perhaps all kids who got top scaled scores for any of sats should have gotten recognition.
Dd1 has still managed to do well on some tests without revising (when the school got dates wrong) but really depended on type of test. People need to make djfferent amounts of effort for same results its just how it is. Often people arent good at everything so might be rubbish at pe instead. And sports day generally doesnt have a you tried hard but came last badge.

The worst thing for me as a smart, quiet child was that the 'naughty' 'cheeky' ones were also obviously the teachers' favourites!

I can see why from an adult POV but it felt doubly unfair as a child that being good at school work and well behaved didn't net ANY benefits! (TBF there were a few lovely teachers who looked out for the bookish)