Did anybody see the Panaroma about binge drinking last night?

[Orangelight23]

Real eye opener for me. Women in their 30s being diagnosed with liver disease. I must admit I have myself been drawn into wine culture and drinking wine to relax.

It's made me have a real think about my alcohol intake to be honest.

Isn’t Fiji something mad like 40 units a week.

Lots of things increase your risk of cancer- smoking, drinking alcohol, not exercising, not eating green leafy vegetables, eating lots of UPF, being overweight especially obese- and these interact with each other and then with other things you can't change like your genetics or whether you are exposed to pollution.

The relationship between cancer and alcohol is quite simple, the more you drink the more the risk. It's just one out of many additive factors.

All of us are balancing these things out over our lives and doing what's possible. I don't think it's scaremongering to estimate the risk, though. We just then have to decide if that's ok with us and make our choices, I don't have air fresheners/plug ins in my house as it seems an unnecessary risk and I don't eat nitrates if I can help it in processed meat, but I don't exercise much or eat enough fibre:

https://www.cancerresearchuk.org/about-cancer/causes-of-cancer/alcohol-and-cancer/how-does-alcohol-cause-cancer

Alcohol is increasingly related to health outcomes which are not just liver disease, but cancer and heart disease- it's like smoking, people always think of the risk of lung cancer, but the most likely result of a lifetime of smoking is a heart attack or stroke.

I wish I could have a glass of wine every now and again, but I'm allergic, I think that would be fine in terms of risk for me.

Not as a one off, but if you regularly drink a few units over the recommended amount, it soon adds up.

What do you mean? I don't think anything over 14 units rolls over into future weeks?!

I'm also sure that 14 units isn't a cliff edge and that there's probably only a negligible difference between drinking 13 units a week and 16.

You could be drinking up to 27 units just in wine, per week. I don’t think exercising and fresh air negates that.

Middle-class older people are the worst for binge drinking, yet they don't even see it as a problem.

No wonder the younger generations aren't drinking as much. They see what embarrassments their parents become when drunk.

Do you mind me asking what medication, I don’t drink and am worried about the amount of medication I take.

Wow, such an interesting discussion on this thread!
Question on the cancer link, because I've googled and can't seem to find it - how do they know specifically that Jane Smiths breast cancer was caused by her alcohol consumption? Is there a test they can do on cancer cells? Sorry if that's a daft question.

Is the study in this article the one you're referring to: https://www.bbc.com/news/uk-11660210

Because this study found that heroin is more dangerous to the individual than alcohol. Read the article carefully.

I really don't like the headline because I think it minimises the devastating impacts that opiates can have on individuals and communities. If you want to know more about those devastating impacts, watch Dopesick. It's a documentary/drama about the impact of prescription opiates (so not cut with anything and a fixed dose) on communities in the US. So many people died after becoming addicted to prescription opiates. Opiates are incredibly addictive. People become unable to stick to a safe dose, their usage can ramp up to unsafe levels extremely quickly. And an overdose can shut down the body extremely easily. I think it's dangerous to minimise these issues.

What I mean is that if someone regularly drinks 18 units a week but doesn't think much of it because it's only "a bit over 14" then of course that's going to make a difference long-term.

Your liver doesn't magically reset itself on a Sunday night - if regularly go "over" the limit then long-term, it makes a big difference. 18 v 14 units a week means that over a year, you're drinking 936 units as opposed to 728, for example. Multiply that by a year, or five, or ten, and that's a lot of extra alcohol.

I drank too much in my early 20s, but cut down considerably when I had children - mostly because if I'd had a few drinks and woke with a hangover it was hard to cope with then having to do kids' activities and, well, entertain them. I found that the alcohol induced sleep coma was not a nice, nourishing sleep and that I actually preferred that lovely, nourishing sleep and waking with a clear head. Mid 40s now, enjoy the occasional g&t or glass of prosecco, and thankfully no ill effects.

Dh drank stupid amounts in his youth (military), continued to he a heavy drinker in his 30s and early 40s and now he's in his mid 50s has recurrent flare ups of pancreatitis because his pancreas is so damaged. He no longer drinks, but I live in fear of him being diagnosed with pancreatic cancer, and his frequent stays in hospital are no fun for any of us.

People saying "YOLO, I'll continue to do it, your lectures are so booooooring!" aren't thinking about how their approach to alcohol may one day render their nearest and dearest grief stricken way before their time, or picking up the pieces while they're hospitalised through alcoholism. Mumsnet has become more alcohol averse in the past decade because we know much more about alcohol abuse, dependency and how binge drinking alcoholism punctuated by sobriety is still alcoholism.

Of course some people will drink till into their 90s with no ill effects, just as some lucky ones will smoke 20 a day and die peacefully in their sleep at 95. But our drinking culture is really damaging, no matter how much you try to dismiss those who champion alcohol aware as fear mongering killjoys.

I'm not holier than thou, I enjoy a drink. I've just grown up and drawn a limit that feels right.

No they can’t. They know alcohol increases risk of cancers but you can’t say alcohol has caused a specific person’s cancer. Could be genetics, could be bad luck..

Many alcoholics don’t get cancer. Many people who are teetotal get cancer. It’s a risk factor, same as being overweight, poor diet and lack of exercise is.

Also, get yourself a smartwatch to see how badly ANY amount of alcohol stresses out your body. It's poison.

https://www.cancerresearchuk.org/about-cancer/causes-of-cancer/alcohol-and-cancer/how-does-alcohol-cause-cancer

I remember watching a documentary year’s ago on binge drinking and it was really shocking the damage it does.

I know I have to go somehow but I’d rather it wasn’t with a bloated, yellowed, pain racked body that I’d inflicted on myself. (I’ve had cancer and there’s not much I can do to prevent that from happening again, so I don’t want to add fuel to the fire with booze).

I thought it was very interesting as I come from a family non-drinkers

I drank at Uni, five years in total, now I barely drink at all

My kids don't drink either

The interesting thing is the amount of people who think you should drink and how people justify and explain away what is an addiction

My son, aged 15, watched the programme and his response was interesting. He told me about the stages of addiction and how many of his friends drink too much

Bizarrely when he goes to their homes the parents seem to sanction this drinking (even offering him a beer or supplying the alcohol) I think this explains why their children drink perhaps?

Personally I think the UK has an unusual attitude to drinking so it doesn't surprise me there is an issue with the rise in people with liver disease

Yes but interestingly in Spain for example that would be within the limits.

It’s not something I would do but a good discussion. Why is 32 units ok in Spain but 15 is not here.

Alcohol isn't the only cause of liver disease. Medication can cause it

I'd say I mix in middle-class circles and know many women who are most likely functioning alcoholics but would laugh off any suggestion of such. Not unusual for them to 'open a bottle' when someone pops round or drink copious amounts on a night out. And yes very embarrassing for the children.
I can give or take alcohol these days but definitely indulged in my youth. For me having kids was a trigger and I'd never be drunk in front of them but it's crazy how many of my friends don't think like that.

I don't think she has her head in the sand she's a realist. 1 in 2 of us will get cancer. You can be the healthiest person in the world and get it and die young. Ive had family members lives cut short from bowel cancer and brain tumors (one t total so can't be due to drink) I think she's saying weigh up the risk she'd rather have a few drinks and enjoy her life however long it is.

Unfortunately, as someone who doesn't drink alcohol anymore, ime, you do tend to have to announce it. Unlike smoking or vaping, the expectation is that you do, and if you decline a drink, you obviously just need some persuasion (or shaming as a bore) to change your mind.
So you could go through the same tedious exchange of giving people excuses (because no thankyou is often not enough, you are expected to give a reason for only drinking coke on a night out) or you could just come out with it and tell your friends you've decided not to drink anymore.
Ime the only people who have an issue with that are those who decide you're not actually talking about yourself, but are somehow making a judgemental comment about them and their drinking. Which is bizarrely self centred of them. Not to mention quire at odds with a culture where non drinkers are often subject to far more negativity than drinkers.

I was just using the 14 v 18 as an example as it's the UK limit, but yes, I know what you mean. It doesn't help that what's considered bingeing in one country is seen as totally normal in others.

But generally being on medication isn't a choice, drinking alcohol is.

Mycophenolate

Give it time, you will. The effects of alcohol creep up on you and by the time you realise what’s happening you’ve done serious damage.

Yep I just find it bizarre that there’s no international consensus amongst scientists for this.

14 is a good guide and I wouldn’t personally feel good drinking more than that. But the reality is that it’s a bit of an arbitrary number.