Did anybody see the Panaroma about binge drinking last night?

[Orangelight23]

Real eye opener for me. Women in their 30s being diagnosed with liver disease. I must admit I have myself been drawn into wine culture and drinking wine to relax.

It's made me have a real think about my alcohol intake to be honest.

Health is a big picture. I know I drink more wine than I should/than most, I'd say 2-3 bottles a wine week equivalent. But I also know I exercise more than most people, am a healthy weight, eat a healthy balanced diet, get lots of fresh air, don't smoke. Actually stress and lack of sleep is probably worse for you long term than a few wines. I might get liver disease, I might get hit by a bus. Live your lives and try to be healthy where you can!

Is that because young people were switching from smoking to alcohol over time? One goes down and the other up proportionally? Or was it different demographics / total numbers?

Just curious as drinking/smoking/vaping etc as a coping mechanism / for relaxation are presumably for similar reasons.

I have liver damage but from medication.

I haven't really ever drunk, I don't like the taste.

Always find these sorts of documentaries are very vague about the amounts the people in them drink. It is made out like "But I was just a social drinker, how could this happen to me?" and then at one point one of the women says she was drinking 3 bottles of wine a night.
The main person in the doc as well says she would exceed 6 glasses of wine in one night, but then doesn't state how often she was drinking. Once a week, maybe ok and liver disease in your 30s a shock and bad luck, but doing that 3-4 times a week and it is far less surprising.
I guess it's not really the point, but just think the way the programme is framed, and similar that I have seen, isn't very helpful.

How would you know though? I know lots of people through work. It’s possible you know me. I’ve never discussed whether i’ve had a glass of wine or two that evening with anyone i meet, and neither have any of they. For all i know some of them may regularly have 3 large glasses a night, and some may be teetotal.

The majority of people having 2-3 glasses a night are not slurring and falling over at work, so unless they wear a badge you aren’t going to have any idea.

Yes, I have read before that Gen Z are not big drinkers actually. I do think 30s-40s are the bigger drinkers (though not as big at 50-70s ...). But I still think 2-3 bottles of wine a week is considered functional alcoholic – at least in my social groups and colleagues.

I am definitely partial to a glass of wine to relax – most definitely – but 2-3 full bottles a week ... that's like 18 glasses. Where do people fit it in? Clearly I don't go out enough ....

I know because I've talked about general alcohol consumption with my friends at work and my old uni friends, couple friends, my siblings etc. It's just come up in conversation a few times.

I don't mean 'known over-drinkers' in that that slurring or falling over is seen, but that they are people who will admit that drink that much and known to always have a glass or two at lunch and always having more than others at functions/work drinks etc. There are even 1-2 colleagues who have told work friends that they've been chastised by their GPs for answering their 'units a week' honestly on forms.

I am definitely partial to a glass of wine to relax – most definitely – but 2-3 full bottles a week ... that's like 18 glasses. Where do people fit it in? Clearly I don't go out enough ....

EIGHTEEN glasses? How small are your glasses?!! A bog standard 250ml of wine - 3 glasses is one bottle.

I will be completely honest and say that as a 40-something female (working full time in a fairly demanding job) I will have normally have 3 nights a week with no alcohol (usually Monday - Wednesday) and then Thursday - Sunday I will have 2-3 glasses of wine a night. More if we go out or it's a special occasion.

I'm never ever drunk, very occasionally I will drink a bottle or slightly more and feel tipsy but then I know that's my cut off and it's time to go to bed with a big glass of water.

Do I have a problem? I'm not sure. I wish sometimes I didn't turn to wine after a stressful day! But also feel lucky that I do know my limits and never end up drunk or asleep on the sofa.

I have no idea about younger people but I would say, going off my friends and work colleagues, that our generation is probably the worst for "casual drinking" and thinking it's fine!

I saw that prog, it focused on the liver because that's what the journalist and her subject had had trouble with, but there's a massive correlation between alcohol and various cancers - and I'm speaking as someone who spent her life drinking too much and got cancer...

Would I have quit if I'd known? Yes, but looking back, not just from the cancer but from all the other things - the mental health effects, the missed opportunities, the pointless arguments, the danger I put myself in, the general half-arsedness of living with a semi-permanent hangover... I also had fun and crazy times to remember.

I've tried years sober and liked it. I tried drinking again, but it's a young person's game... the hangovers get brutal with age, and I missed the calm and awareness and self-possession. So I'm planning to go sober again. I wouldn't try to convince anyone else, it has to be our own decision.

But the minute you lay out the cold facts of drinking, people always think there's a moral judgement and someone's going to take their bottle away...

I had a very similar attitude until i had a heart attack and realised i din't want to die and my Children Grandchildren and other loved ones were the whole point of my life and that i would do anything to extend my time with them. Alcohol, cigs, crap food etc are nowhere near as important as my loved ones.

I've been concerned about my drinking and downloaded the mydrinkaware app after seeing it recommended on one of the other MN boards. It's really good and I'd highly recommend it. I feel much more in control of how much I'm drinking and I'm very conscious of keeping it within the low risk category.

If you're concerned but don't want to give up drinking entirely then I'd recommend it.

Yes I was listening to the radio programme on this after the show. Everyone is different (genetics I guess) some people can tolerate large amounts of alcohol and be fine others get disease at low levels.

The problem I guess is you don’t know which one you are. The only thing you can do I think, is to have a liver function tests or imaging done of your liver if you’re worried.

My Dad drinks every day (I’ve told him this is not healthy). His liver function tests come back fine.

It’s not quite as clear cut as we think. But obviously staying within the guidelines and having plenty of days off alcohol in a row is the healthiest strategy.

Honestly this programme has shook me a bit! I was not a big drinker at all in my 20s, nor was DH, but since Covid we got into the habit of weekend drinking. Most weeks it's quite innocuous; a bottle of wine for me, a few beers for DH (over a weekend) but some weekends we sneak in more, DH loves JD, this time of year we'll supplement with Baileys, in the summer it's some cider, some cocktails. It is shocking that a binge is essentially 2 large glasses of wine.

I'm going to start tracking units. I have really found myself craving that release on a weekend though I have to admit, I could take it or leave in my 20s, but value it so much more in my 30s.

This reminds me of a conversation I overheard on the train about 10 years ago.

Adult daughter to her mum: ‘I think I might have a problem, I drink a bottle of wine almost every evening’.
Her mum replied ‘You don’t have a problem, you’re just middle class’ 😂

You really are kidding yourself. All of those bottles will catch up with you sooner or later no matter how many times you go to the gym.

I used to be the life and soul of the party, until mid-thirties, and gave up drinking pretty much at 40. I’ll have the odd glass of fizz on Christmas Day, or a glass of wine at dinner with DH, but I drive on nights out.

Haven’t missed it. There are older functioning alcoholics in extended family; it puts you off.

I have 5-10 units a week usually. I can have a lot more in a sitting sometimes on a day out with friends, holidays or Christmas but that is very infrequent and I'm happy to take the risk at this level as I enjoy it with no obvious effect on health. If I were to drink more regularly there would be a clear and obvious effect on health - sleep and weight mainly I would notice first.

I binge drink on a night out about once a year and I'm comfortable with that
Occasional glass of wine with a meal out
It could be I had a drink last month or not for 2 years sometimes
I don't drink at home ever

One thing I've noticed is that while I could have other spirits in the house or beer and leave it alone if I had wine in the house we used to go through it very quickly.

It's not so bad now, I've got some wine open from the weekend at the back of the worktop in the kitchen and maybe I'll have a glass tomorrow evening.

used to drink, would have a few in the house, went out with friends, nothing major however my mother moved closer. Every time we visited the wine was open, the comments getting more and more acerbic, ‘her opinions’ apparently more like judging me and my life and everything is my fault, I don’t understand how hard her life was when we were growing up etc venom filled texts and phone calls, and finally I cut her off and stopped drinking, I didn’t want it to be something we do in our family, be made to feel less than by an old drunk who preferred wine to her own family.

Who knows if it affects her health she’d likely not say, somehow it would be someone else’s fault though. Her drinking isn’t a problem apparently. I know for the majority this isn’t an issue but I wasn’t prepared to watch her and be victim to the abuse whilst she drank and took no responsibility for her actions. I feel better for not drinking, I don’t miss it I don’t want it, but I do have ‘friends’ who do the oh you need to let your hair down, etc etc I still enjoy life and have fun not drinking doesn’t turn you into a boring old fart?!?

I mean who knows what will happen in the future but I seem to have an off switch with most things (apart from perhaps crisps!) to keep things in moderation.

Smoking I had a very good go at in my 20s but just couldn't get on with it at all ultimately. Just made me unwell. Drinking is the same with anything other than a very moderate amount regularly.

Standard wine glasses were originally 125ml weren't they? So that's 6 glasses per bottle x 3 gives 18 glasses.
It's relatively recently that pubs started serving 175ml and 250ml glasses.

I haven't watched the programme but did listen to the piece on Woman's Hour about liver disease and it did make me think. I had years of not drinking at all when my DC were very young - they were shit sleepers, I just didn't want alcohol in my life, didn't miss it at all during that time.

Now I drink almost every weekend, occasionally I just won't fancy it and I know I tend to feel better then, sleep well and obviously no hint of hangover. I don't usually feel hungover at the weekends but I know when I'm not, if that makes sense - the absence is clear.

I could drink every night, and often would like to, that's since covid and WFH... little treats for getting through the days, it's not great is it? I don't drink every night, but often via willpower rather than indifference to it.

I will go in for dry January and maybe see if I can extend that.