Did anybody see the Panaroma about binge drinking last night?

[Orangelight23]

Real eye opener for me. Women in their 30s being diagnosed with liver disease. I must admit I have myself been drawn into wine culture and drinking wine to relax.

It's made me have a real think about my alcohol intake to be honest.

British culture has a very odd relationship with alcohol. You are seen as a weirdo and party pooper if you don’t drink. Luckily for me I developed some sort of intolerance to alcohol when I was 30. Two glasses of wine will leave my skin swollen, itchy and warm to the touch. Too unpleasant so I rarely drink now. Get plenty of peer pressure though. Middle class mums are among the worst at pushing a “cheeky glass”. I picked up my nephew from a play date and couldn’t believe that an entire bottle was polished off whilst we waited for the kids to get ready.

Having said that, it’s never too late to cut down your drinking. The liver has capacity to repair.

An uncle of mine died a few years ago of Cirrhosis of the liver, he had no idea he had anything wrong with his liver until it was too late to do anything about it. His death dragged out for months with terrible ascites and dementia like symptoms. It's a horrible, horrible way to die.

That was the other documentary yesterday on BBC2 at 9pm about snacking and UPF.

Yeah I can see this in my friends, too. I was very much the bottle of wine on the sofa with a bag of maltesers type, most of my friends are slowly sip a glass of wine while chatting and leave half of it in the glass types. I could never do that! If the bottle is open, it gets drunk, end of.

The glasses are small as well. Some wine glasses we have here almost hold half a bottle.

Obviously I am speaking only for myself (I am not round at your place funneling Merlot down your neck am I?) but I don't want to live to 100 if I can't have /do things I enjoy which happens to be socialising with a drink (lucky me, most of my friends are the same). Do I stick within the guidelines, no absolutely not, do I worry about it, absolutely not!

Genine question: can 2 bottles of wine a week actually damage your health? I would have thought that is quite temperate drinking: two small glasses a night with one night a week off.

Tbh, I drink fairly close to that. One or two glasses (small ones - 125 ml) most nights. The occasional night off, Plus Dry Jan off and none when I feel ill - so probably about 2 months off in total per year, and 10 months of 1-2 glasses a night. Is that terrible? I am a bit overweight. But I never lose weight in Dry Jan, so I can't blame the wine for that.

How old are your dad and uncles? And have they had liver function testing and/or CT scan of liver? Stats on the BBC article linked to the Panorama doc say that 7 out of 10 cases of liver disease show symptoms until they are at late stage.

My dad was one of 5 drinking buddies (beer down the pub for years, never spirits or wine). Three of them were diagnosed with cirrhosis in early-mid 60s with no prior signs or symptoms. The other two, now late 60s have severe liver scarring. My dad died 3yrs after cirrhosis diagnosis. Blood tests alone cannot detect liver scarring, only LFT tests can.

I’d try to aim for 1.5 bottles if you can. Thereafter 1.

So yes that would take you over the maximum weekly units (if you're a woman) however I think there is some evidence to suggest that drinking that way is a lot better than saving all the units and then binge drinking.

I'm always a bit on the fence with things like this.

Surely you're very unlikely to get liver disease in your thirties unless you're extremely unlucky or you drink excessive amounts.
A couple of bottles a week isn't excessive amounts. 4-5 bottles a week is. People who crack open a bottle of something as soon as they wake up, walk down the street sipping a can.

They key is keeping within the limits, and you'll most likely be fine.
Stuff like this makes out that any drop of wine is likely to result in your hideous death in a matter of months. It's scaremongering.

Anyone with any common sense and a decent IQ knows that the limit is 14 units, not 0 units.
So keep within that!

Well 2 bottles is circa 20 units, so yes it’s beyond the recommended limit of 14 and to spread those units out evenly across 3 days so that you are not reaching 6 units in one day.

Interestingly the Drink Aware test has just told me I'm 'low risk' but I probably drink a couple of bottles a week.

The only time I drink is with my evening meal - have no desire to any other time. But I do like a decent glass of wine with my dinner (yes I know - habit). I wouldn't drink more than 1/3 of a bottle and I try and have a couple of nights off a week but it's a conscious effort and I don't always manage it (though not had anything since Saturday). So I reckon 15-20 units a week for me.

But a couple of bottles a week does exceed the limit of 14. So you can’t also say it’s not excessive.

But two bottles a week is more than 14 units...

I'm similar to you. Except I always have 2-3 days off a week, especially mid week as I got to the point where I'd drink for the sake of it, because it's routine.

You're increasing your risk the more you have.
I'd try 1.5 bottles, or 1 a week, and stay at that. You don't need to quit alcohol all together.

@Didimum @coffeesaveslives but not by much.

Yet or that you know of.

It was a very interesting watch and quite thought-provoking.
There was a lot that was not explained, genetics, for example.
This subject was not covered at all.
The other interesting point was cultural.
Also there was no mention of any other country apart from the UK.
Nanny state again?
Having said all that, wine with a meal to enhance or underpin the delicious food?

The fact that those talking in support of this bill are largely those who are not in this situation shows how devalued disabled and chronically ill people are in our society. Instead it is full of healthy people saying I would not want to live those lives.

Not as a one off, but if you regularly drink a few units over the recommended amount, it soon adds up.

‘Not by much’ by whose gauge of risk though? It’s 45% in excess, so quite a bit statistically.

It’s fine anyway, just pretend you live in Belgium or Ireland and you can more than double your quota….

“Belgium labels up to 21 drinks a week for men and 14 for women as low risk, while Ireland goes with up to 17 drinks for men and 11 for women, with two alcohol-free days a week. France recommends no more than 10 standard drinks a week – the same as Australia – but never more than two standard drinks a day and at least one alcohol-free day a week. The UK advises no more than 14 units a week, over at least three days, and “some” alcohol-free days, while the US recommends no more than two drinks a day for men and one for women.
To further confuse things, countries have different definitions of what constitutes a standard drink. In the US, a standard drink contains 14 grams of alcohol, in Australia it’s 10 grams and in the UK it’s about eight grams”

What I find interesting is that the limits vary so much from country to country. Such a remarkable lack of consensus over what constitutes a harmful level
of alcohol.

We focus on 14 units in this country. However it’s less in some countries (US, Denmark) and more in other countries such as Spain.