Did anybody see the Panaroma about binge drinking last night?

[Orangelight23]

Real eye opener for me. Women in their 30s being diagnosed with liver disease. I must admit I have myself been drawn into wine culture and drinking wine to relax.

It's made me have a real think about my alcohol intake to be honest.

Im not sure what your first sentence means (and what your views on chicken have to do with binge drinking!?! 😂) but would be very interested in seeing those graphs/data. Can you tag me if you find anything please? Thanks for replying.

Thanks for posting this. Do we have stated for what this graph looked like over the decades? This shows a peak in the 55-59 year age group but has this always been the case? Also, presumably there’s a reason for the report that the sudden rise is in the under 30s?

https://www.ons.gov.uk/peoplepopulationandcommunity/birthsdeathsandmarriages/deaths/bulletins/alcoholspecificdeathsintheuk/2021registrations

I suppose it just makes me feel sad.
As tragic as it sounds to non drinkers, one of my few pleasures in life is sitting down with a drink in the evening. Or having a glass of wine at the pub.
A takeaway and a few drinks on a Saturday night is something I really look forward to after a long busy week. I don't get the chance to go out much and I struggle to give up the things I enjoy.
Obviously if it was a question of life or death I'd stop. But I'd miss it because it's something I enjoy. I've always known it's not especially good for me but this thread has opened my eyes a bit to how dangerous it really could be.
It's just sad that things we actually like can be so harmful for us.

Just for you, @CrazyAndSagittarius 🤓

You can really see an uptick in all age ranges in 2019- linked to the covid lockdowns perhaps?

Yes, that's what the ONS said. There was a sharp jump between 2019 and 2020.

Yes I'm the same as you.
That said I don't think a few wines on a weekend is going to do much ? You can still look forward to that.
I try not to drink Mon-Thurs. Then I can look forward to finishing work on a Friday and have a drink and takeaway.

Interesting but the first lockdowns were 2020 - and surely it would take some time to develop alcohol related diseases to result in death?

I mean I was very ant-lockdown so would like it to be that reason. The jump does seem very bizarre.

@TurkeyDinosaurs2 I think that's what I will start doing. It's what I used to do but during Covid it became nightly and now it's more like 5 nights a week. It's not good.

Dh and I are going to attempt dry January and I'll make a conscious effort to cut back a bit before then too. Wrong time of year really but this thread has freaked me out a bit.

@Delatron

I agree: alcohol related disease and death takes decades. Unless a significant amount of the population was drinking buckets daily in lockdown it seems very unlikely it would generate a population wide spike across all ages in that period.

I think it’s a much slower burn phenomenon and I think a lot of it has to do with the way alcohol has been marketed at women since the 1990s.

And, as much as I hate to say it as a pretty hardcore feminist, I think feminism has enabled this to some extent by making women feel drinking heavily in public is OK.

It does look unexpected! But these numbers are only deaths directly attributable to alcohol, it doesn't include where alcohol was a contributing factor. I double-checked this in case some Covid deaths had found their way in.

People can kill themselves pretty damn fast by caning it hard for several days. I recall a few friends having to be blue-lighted when they'd collapsed in a coma - none of them died, but someone older or with underlying conditions might have. Here's the list:

Alcohol-induced pseudo-Cushing's syndrome
Mental and behavioural disorders due to the use of alcohol
Degeneration of nervous system due to alcohol
Alcoholic polyneuropathy
Alcoholic myopathy
Alcoholic cardiomyopathy
Alcoholic gastritis
Alcoholic liver disease
Alcohol-induced acute pancreatitis
Alcohol-induced chronic pancreatitis
Fetal alcohol syndrome (dysmorphic)
Excess alcohol blood levels
Accidental poisoning by and exposure to alcohol
Intentional self-poisoning by and exposure to alcohol
Poisoning by and exposure to alcohol, undetermined intent

Have you tried any of the alcohol free drinks that are around now?
Maybe have that first glass of wine or whatever, then alcohol free alternative after that?

I would imagine these were people who were seriously impaired health wise by alcohol abuse already
Lack of support, social isolation, job loss or furlough, the awful doom of daily covid reports and deaths probably all played a part.
Those who may have been secret drinkers could drink freely if they didn't have to go to work or socialise with family and friends.

A sudden increase could lead to death in weeks or months if the liver was already damaged .

I don't want to be a Debbie downer but having a drink 3 nights every week is probably too much. My conclusion is that trying to drink the amount which is almost definitely safe is really just not worth the candle, easier and almost certainly healthier not to drink at all.

Just in case anyone cares my own drinking hisotry:
1992- 1994 Age 15-18 weekly drinking mostly beer or cider couple of pints once or twice a week
1994-2000 Age 18-23 Student years heavy drinking 2/3/4 nights a week, the beging of having a drink at home some nights. Definately above government limits drank allsorts.

2000-2004 Age 23-27 Junior doctor regular nights out ( probably once a week) drinking at home another 2-3 nights, some weeks more, some less, mostly wine. Almost certainly too much.

2004-2012 Age 28-35 ish Mum to young children nights out very rare but wine at home 3-4 nights a week.

2012- 2018 Age 35-41 Stuff starting to be muttered by some medics about links with cancer, early studies showing serious bad effects from binge drinking, goverment guidence reduced from 21 to 14 units. Started being strict about no drinking Mon-Thurs never on school nights.

2018-Sept 2024 aged 41-48
More evidence emerging about harm at even " safe" levels of drinking. Salford study about FASD is published. DH's Dad is acknowledged as an alcoholic, he dies in 2021. Contempories start being diagnosed with cancer ( breast and bowel). Decide not to drink at home or in term time. Now well below government recomedations but evidence is that there is no safe level ( WHO 2023)

Sept 2024 Decide trying to guestimate how much might be safe is a mug's game.Give up on the whole "will I drink, won't I drink ?" narrative on any given occasion. Also menopause on the horizon which is not a good bedfellow with alcohol.

So that is my journey and how I came to relaise that " a few wines" a couple of times a week is not harmless. I do worry about my alcohol consumption in the past although I would never have been described as a problem drinker, just like smoking I just hope I have stopped in time..

Yes. I was thinking how in the 80s when I worked in a bar, the most common order for a couple was a pint and a half of lager. So common we had the price on auto pilot and I remember it now (£1.80!) served in what was known as a 'ladies glass' too. It would be unheard of now for a women to have a drink half the size of a man' by default, but given the typical relative size/weight/blood levels, it probably wasn't the worst idea the patriarchy ever had.

I hope that not a single one of the “alcohol is the wee wee of the devil and the single worst thing you can do” merchants on this thread is also a Mumsnet covid-minimiser.
https://pmc.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/articles/PMC10202899/

Enjoy your hard earned takeaway and drink.

Some livers are definately stronger than others. My mum drank 200 units a week at her peak (The equivalent of about 20 bottles of wine) and drank at least 100 units a week for 35 years. I doubt she had more than 5 drink free days in that time. She died at 76 and not from Liver problems.

However, it is a bit of a silent illness so need to be careful as will get some.

@fishface44 Yeah how shit is it that it's usually the unhealthiest food and habits that are the most joy inducing.. it's unfair! As humans we seem to crave badness. You'd think we'd evolve to not like anything unhealthy.

So I've known a few people succumb to cirrhosis and these have been the every day heavy drinkers.
But the disease I'm seeing more often now is type 2 diabetes. I know of 3 people in the small number of people I know who have had to have feet off because their drinking has caused the diabetes and then they haven't controlled their intake so it has gone unmanaged. One is imminently dying. All 3 of these people are the less obvious alcoholics who drink socially every fri-sun and go to pubs etc.

The jump in alcohol deaths during Covid-19 is more likely due to not being able to access the GP in person and huge delays in treatment and diagnosis at this time, than drinking itself during lockdown- although it's true bingeing at home could trigger something in already damaged livers.

Yes I would agree with that. My Dad died of lung cancer during that time and they basically just left him to it. It was awful.

Fellow data bores: I did the chart of alcohol deaths by condition. Alcoholic liver disease rocketed after 2019. I think @TowerBallroom must be right - these individuals already had alcohol-damaged livers, then went mad on the booze when the pandemic hit and their livers couldn't take it.

I appreciate your input @Neurodiversitydoctor . Very interesting post.

Thing is though, I've worked out I drink roughly 12-13 units a week. That's under the weekly limit.
If it was really such a danger to my health, why is the limit so high? DrinkAware says I'm low risk.

I know I'm risking my health with any units of alcohol, but I'm still classed as low risk. I don't smoke, I'm a healthy size.
To me low risk is low risk, so it's ok.

You have to weigh it up for yourself really, and everyone's interpretation of risk is quite different, as this thread proves, even with statistics.