Did anybody see the Panaroma about binge drinking last night?

[Orangelight23]

Real eye opener for me. Women in their 30s being diagnosed with liver disease. I must admit I have myself been drawn into wine culture and drinking wine to relax.

It's made me have a real think about my alcohol intake to be honest.

That's why obesity related diseases cost the nhs more than alcohol related ones, addiction is addiction, whatever it is

Before my mum died, I didn’t really drink loads, maybe shared a bottle
of wine with my husband every weekend. After she died I was so worried about having a full breakdown, I completely knocked it on the head and can’t believe how much better I looked and felt without it - I was amazed at how dropping from an acceptable amount to nothing really impacted my mental health - while grieving too. When you’ve drink all you adult life, it’s a revelation. I’ll never go back to drinking regularly.

Why is it funny/a surprise that an attitude has changed over a decade? People learn (I hope).

I’m sure if MN had existed back then there would’ve been a similar switch from ‘smoking around kids is the norm’ to ‘smoking around kids is terrible for them’. Or ‘you don’t need seatbelts in the back of the car’ to ‘everyone needs a seatbelt and kids in proper car seats’. That’s progress.

You’re probably right @AnnieSnap and I never really thought about it that way. I think the (or at least, my) problem is that we (as women in our 30s plus at least) have been conditioned to think that opening a bottle of wine after work or with tea or after you’ve finished cleaning on a Saturday (!) is normal?? Therefore it gets played down as just being a part of daily routine and we don’t recognise it as the same behaviour of those we class as “actual” alcoholics. Very scary and definitely giving me food for thought at the moment.

No, that's why I am a fat old woman who eats and drinks wht she likes.

So I wonder about different cultures, for example, in France where it is quite often the norm to drink a glass or two of wine with a meal most days. Are the French all ticking time bombs for liver disease?
I know someone who binge drinks one or two nights a week, (2 bottles of wine and a couple of cans of beer in a day) but the rest of the week he has no alcohol. I am now concerned about the state of their liver, as I am about my daughter’s (30years, petite frame) ) who works in hospitality in Canada where there is a strong drinking culture admittedly after a day of outdoor sports. But, as a PP has said, life is for enjoying. On the other hand, non alcoholic drinks are getting very much better but they still do not get that wind down relaxation feeling that alcohol does.

God, I hope so. SW is the work of the devil and responsible for so much yo-yo dieting and dysfunctional eating. I wonder how many women have had their metabolism wrecked by rebounding back to SW every couple of years.

It should be banned.

@toastandtwo

Why is it funny/a surprise that an attitude has changed over a decade? People learn (I hope)

I totally agree and I find it incredibly irritating that on every thread about alcohol someone invariably tips up to say: “On Mumsnet if you have a glass of sherry once a year at Christmas you are an alcoholic.” So tediously predictable.

There’s a huge difference between a glass of sherry at Christmas and wine o’clock, which a frightening number of women do and are in complete denial about.

@Wantitalltogoaway Yep the women I know on sw have been on it since the 90s still losing and gaining the same pounds.

Have you ever had concerns about your own relationship with alcohol?

Because calorie counting is bullshit for women.

Most women who can’t lose weight despite low calorie diets have imbalanced hormones, inflammation and erratic blood sugar. With those, you’re fighting a losing battle.

Sort your hormones out and keep steady blood sugar and you’ll be amazed what you can eat.

Because she likes to clarify the facts about breast cancer (and other cancers and alcohol)?

We have seen quite a few posters on here claim their friends cancers were definitely caused by their alcohol drinking. They just don’t know that. 10% of all cancers are genetic - 30% are lifestyle that includes our weight, what we eat and drink, how much we exercise. 60% are environmental - there’s a huge amount we don’t know about cancer.

Alcohol raises the risk (from whatever your original risk was). For some
cancers.

I think it’s important to stick to facts when discussing this. Otherwise the argument gets diluted when wild claims are made.

There's something off about the poster claiming her friends breast cancers were alcohol related when there is literally no way anyone can know that for sure.

So I wonder about different cultures, for example, in France where it is quite often the norm to drink a glass or two of wine with a meal most days. Are the French all ticking time bombs for liver disease?

It's not just about the amount you drink, but the type of alcohol and how you drink it too.

Two small glasses of red wine over dinner, mixed with good food and mineral water is very different to the UK culture of "wine o'clock", "bottomless brunch" and happy hour where you can buy as many 2 for 1 cocktails as you like.

There's also the culture of coming home from work and going straight to the cupboard of the fridge to get a glass of wine or beer because you've "had a hard day" rather than enjoying a glass of wine as a planned pairing to a good meal.

The UK drinking culture is awful but because it's what we've all grown up with as " normal", we just don't see it as a problem.

Unfortunately I know a lot of people in their fifties and sixties who are now struggling with their health due to their lifestyles in their 30's and 40's - of course it's not just alcohol, but unfortunately alcohol often goes hang in hand with bad food choices and a sedentary lifestyle - again, not always, but often.

I wrote out a really long, detailed (probably quite boring!) post about my drinking, but it ended up as a mini essay.

Essentially after 6 weeks of drinking (1.5-2 bottles of wine a week)I came to realise that by saying yes to a glass of wine I was saying yes to:
-A temporary but very lovely relaxed, floaty feeling.

• Feeling irritable when that feeling worse of/drinking more wine to avoid it wearing off. Being irritable with my kids.
• Heartburn
• Poor quality sleep and looking tired (people commented!)
• Being mildly hungover some mornings
• Empty calories from the wine plus the inevitable crisps or salty snack that accompany it.
• Feeling more sociable.
• Rarely leaving the sofa once I'd had a glass of wine, so saying "no" to walking the dog, playing with the kids, doing any form of exercise etc.
• Less money available to spend on other things.
• All of the increased risks and impacts of alcohol on the whole body, including the longterm health of the brain.

I'm not teetotal now, I maybe have a 1 to 4 glasses of wine a month if we are round at someone's house for dinner or celebrating a birthday. I am considering completely giving up. Alcohol doesn't have the same appeal to me anymore now that I took the time off from it and was really mindful about what it was doing to me.

It feels like more of a "treat" to give myself a good night of quality sleep, increased energy, the headspace from thinking about drinking etc. than it does to open a bottle and I do feel more relaxed overall without it.

Oops, still a bit of an essay! 😂

So the woman in the documentary was drinking 50-60 units a week, that she disclosed? It's probably even more. But 60 units a week is a LOT and I think everyone on here would expect her to become unwell with that level of drinking.

Scaremongering TV. If your drinking is affecting your daily life, and that of others, then you have a problem. Sensitivity to alcohol is entirely individual. If you end up under the table, or suffer shocking hangovers after light drinking then you probably shouldn't be drinking at all. Personally, I've done the back alley cider drinking and vomiting as a teen, the binge drinking in my 20s, the wine when the kids are in bed in my 30s, the embarrassment of the full glass bin being emptied, for all the street to hear, in my sociable 40s.and the 'is it too early for a gin and tonic' in my 50s. These days two drinks or more and I'm falling asleep, so it isn't worth it on a lot of occasions. I am perfectly fit and healthy, have held down responsible jobs. These days we have a nanny state trying to control our lives, and a media that loves to make headlines. We are grown ups and are capable of making our own decisions, whether good or bad. Yes it's unfortunate about the said rise in liver disease but how factual are those stats exactly? One for the BBCs 'More or less' radio 4 programme methinks. Chin chin

‘Play stupid games, win silly prizes’ or
’fuck around and find out’

There will be lots of people that defend their drinking of alcohol, however big or small that will fall victim to it, trust me, most don’t realise they will, but will be shocked and left thinking ‘why me, I wasn’t that bad?’, there is a whole rainbow of surprise health problems that can and will come your way.

But of course everyone is the main character in their story at present, and the main character never gets hurt, having a ‘you only live once’ attitude is fine, until suddenly it isn’t.

But we have free will for the most part, so make your own choices, enjoy life, but remember no one is immune from the potential side effects of drinking poison.

So basically the consensus on this thread is its better to be an overweight binge eater than a skinny lush

I know there's been arguments upthread, but I think this is where I think people are wrong. The liver trust website said that liver disease is a disease of poverty. I don't believe there are more poor drinkers and alcoholics than middle class ones. As I said, from my experience the wine time mums and weekly drinkers are exclusively middle class. Working class maybe more likely to binge drink, possibly, but I still think that would be a stretch. As with SO many diseases, wealth does seem to offer some protection..which implies that diet/obesity/ exercise has more of an overall effect on liver health.

Absolutely nobody has said that.

As with SO many diseases, wealth does seem to offer some protection..which implies that diet/obesity/ exercise has more of an overall effect on liver health.

Money doesn't protect you from being lazy and obese with a bad diet, though.

However, money does buy you access to good medical treatment - even things like being able to get regular dental checks can play a huge role in your overall health.

No but it's largely acknowledged that obesity is a disease of poverty.

Ahh thank you. I will search shortly for the podcast 👍🏻