Did anybody see the Panaroma about binge drinking last night?

[Orangelight23]

Real eye opener for me. Women in their 30s being diagnosed with liver disease. I must admit I have myself been drawn into wine culture and drinking wine to relax.

It's made me have a real think about my alcohol intake to be honest.

I learned this a few years ago and was shocked, I saw a documentary on a mid 30's professional lady, who drank quite a bit as part of her professional london life but wasn't a all day out of control drinker and she very sadly developed cirrhosis. I had assumed it was inevitable for all drinkers, but learned through this that only a fairly small percentage of drinkers develop long term cirrhosis.

I’ve lost loved ones to alcoholism so I really hate all the wine o’clock silliness now. I don’t abstain completely but do keep my consumption at a low level.

In the Panorama programme, the thing that really shocked me was when they showed the adverts aimed at women. In years to come I suspect we’ll look at them in the same way we now look at cigarette adverts from the 1950s and wonder how we allowed ourselves to be so manipulated by the alcohol industry.

@TowerBallroom

Wrap it up in soft fluffy terms like wine o clock, pink gin, 🥂 time and make it fun and also you deserve it and its easy to see how excess drinking has spiralled.

I find this creepy as fuck. I have just been in an Oliver Bonas and there was a card display unit of which a whole side was devoted to these “Wine o’clock” birthday cards. About ten different cards showing cartoon women looking glamorous and happy making lame puns about having another bottle instead of another glass ho ho ho.

I’m going to sound like a rabid Puritan here but I honestly think the “Wine o’clock” merch should be banned or heavily regulated.

Can you imagine cards being manufactured bearing the slogan: “Have another fag! It’s your birthday!” It’s so damaging the way this is pushed at women. In 20 years people will look back at it and cringe.

it causes life changing trauma for 25% of drinkers.

Well said @WendyWagon. I am one of the 25 percent, typing this in a radiotherapy waiting room as I am recovering from lobular breast cancer - the kind that doesn't show up on mammograms. Hopefully I'll live another 10 years but who knows. I'm 51.

Didn't see the Panorama docu but interesting thread. I was drinking for 2-3 years 4-5 nights a week, almost always within NHS weekly unit guidelines, to deal with long-term stress and emotional trauma caused by an inescapable situation. It may just be my bad luck but I believe the alcohol was definitely a factor.

I think the NHS guidelines need revising, with a focus on the length of time/frequency/reason a person has been drinking rather than the number of units, because even 14 units a week is no good if you're doing it every week.

Stigma and shame around drinking needs to be removed and women need to feel supported. We need a change of attitude, and a change of language around drinking, and to stop labelling people as alcoholics or problem drinkers because that just makes them feel worse.

In 20 years people will look back at it and cringe.

As much as the people who don't like drinking want this to be the case I don't think it will be. Even people who don't drink much find the taste of the drinks nice & do like the buzz. There are so many people who enjoy it without it being a problem. Many people in power enjoy it. Raising a glass of champagne at a wedding is far different to everyone sparking up a cigarette at the same time when the speeches are being done.

I don't like it when people who are ill are encouraged to blame themselves when it's not clear that the cause actually is alcohol consumption. I don't think guilt and shame should be the drivers of positive change because I don't think that correlates.

I went for a private scan as I was worried about my drinking in my 20s and in lock-down. Dr said it was very healthy looking and he could see no issues at all. He said the liver could tolerate a hell of a lot, and he looked a bit puzzled as to why I was there.

He said Dr friends of his drank far more than me (I was drinking 20-30 units a week).

That being said, I drink less now, which I intend to continue as I approach middle age.

Sorry to read this and I hope you're on the path to recovery, and indeed you live far past 10 years. But you can't know that your moderate drinking caused it? Or can you? I'm trying to say don't blame yourself. Chris Hoy is an incredibly fit and heathy individual and look what's happened to him.

I agree with this.

If you are sick you are sick. And unless medical professionals can categorically tell you that 'alcohol caused this' I see no point in people assuming they've somehow done it to themselves.

So many things in life carry a risk. You don't see people with bowel cancer saying 'oh that'll be all those beef dinners and burgers I ate back in 1998' even though red meat has been linked to the disease.

It's just pointless and unhelpful. And not always true.

Drinking excessively is really bad for your health , I think that’s been pretty well documented! Bottom lobe it’s dangerous for your health.
My cousin is a doctor and has come across fatty liver a lot in obese people , apparently it’s very common to have liver problems if you are overweight also. So people who have problems with alcohol cause pressure on the health service as do over-weight people. In fact having any weight on your stomach area is extremely bad for your health and you will be at high risk of certain cancers and diseases.
There was a thread recently along the same lines as this a how damaging alcohol is but in this threads case it was talking about obesity and there was a complete shut down , op accused of “fat-shaming “.
Is this not “alcoholic shaming “?
A pp above said it’s difficult as you “need food to eat “ and you don’t need alcohol-100 percent . But you don’t need to eat the amount that makes people overweight.
Both are equally unhealthy and cause the health service to be under pressure. I don’t drink much at all so I’m not “triggered” but there’s such hypocrisy when it comes to threads on alcohol vs threads on being overweight. Both are awful for your health , both can cause huge problems and worries in families. When I see posts by extremely overweight bloggers about body positivity I think image some alcoholic with the awful effects on their body promoting the same ..

Also before someone else says “ but we’re only talking about alcohol “ the two completely correlate .

@NImumconfused 100 percent

There's such a defensiveness about talking about the risks.
It's important to know and understand your risks so you can make informed decisions for your health, it's not to make already ill people feel bad (although they will also need the info in a non judgemental way to prevent recurrence etc).
I've a family risk of breast cancer. I choose to heavily moderate my alcohol consumption, about 2 units a month in average, not smoke etc.
The alcohol industry spend millions and millions on ads, sports sponsorship etc., yet relatively modest attempts to provide extra info on health impacts tends to provoke some people 🤷‍♂️

But who has said this? Who on this thread has said they are an overweight junk food eating teetotal coach potato who believes themselves healthier than a clean eating, exercising person who drinks a small glass of wine on a Friday? People have in the main expressed concerns over their own drinking, with some having reached the decision that any alcohol is too great a health risk for them. They say this, and immediately get a lot of defensive arguments about why their decision for themselves is 'pearl clutching', over reactive, indicative they won't enjoy their lives etc. Its assumed they are boring, uncool, kill joys, prim and judgemental.
The personal judgement has seemed to flow very much one way. So whatever people on here are having an issue with, I can't see it can be that, because that isn't what's being said, yet still there's an issue as soon as a person is less than enthusiastic about alcohol.

Yes this is what I'm thinking too. It's a good wake up call for me as I know I was drinking too much weekly and will now make a real effort to cut down before Xmas rather than tell myself I'll wait until dry Jan. But it's caused me a fair bit of anxiety and I think there will be alot of 30 something women asking GPs from liver scans now! I did notice the main reporter was very vague about what she was actually consuming. It was just that she drank socially and not every day. That could mean anything. That said although the numbers are rising too much it's still incredibly rare to have alcohol related liver problems in early 30s, and must be partly genetic.

Interesting topic, my mum passed earlier this year from a non alcohol liver condition. I have spent the last twenty years meeting terminal liver patients a lot very young, drinkers and sadly very ill.

Ironically my mum was a tea totaler, only one in the family though to be fair non of us are big drinkers.

My mum was very social so we got to know a lot of the pre transplant patients. So many sadly didn't get the opportunity.

I do feel there is a lot more at home drinking and definitely denial of what they are drinking.

Whoosh! So close!

This comment has been completely lost on me.

@ivegoneswimming

As much as the people who don't like drinking want this to be the case I don't think it will be. Even people who don't drink much find the taste of the drinks nice & do like the buzz. There are so many people who enjoy it without it being a problem

Of course and I enjoy it sometimes and have no problem with people enjoying alcohol.

But I do think the “tee hee, go an, have another vat of wine, you’re worth it” tendency, and the way it’s shamelessly used by marketers, will be something we look back on with horror in the same way we now look at cigarette advertising. Partly because it’s exploiting addiction and also it’s just embarrassing and naff.

It's crazy isn't it? Saw a particularly good ad for Bailey's the other night really made me want some. Meanwhile cigarettes have to be kept out of sight behind the till and in grey packaging covered in gory images.

Arguably alcohol is a lot worse than cigarettes (I'm not saying cigarettes are ok) my mother smoked while pregnant with me and my siblings with no ill effects, meanwhile alcohol has it's very own learning disability that children of mothers who drink while pregnant can develop.

@Thepeopleversuswork Yes, they are a bit cringe.

Can anyone explain what the Travis thing means 😂

Yes. It’s an important discussion but Panorama are known for their sensationalism and causing controversy. See the HRT programme they did a few weeks ago. (Funnily this is all directed at women). And now we will have lots of women worried about their drinking when younger and wanting liver scans.

Yes we should all drink within the limits and many could do with cutting down. But I would prefer Panarama to be more facts based. It’s a big leap to go from ‘social drinking’ to severe liver damage in your 30s. There must be more to it. It seems like it wasn’t confirmed how much the lady in question drank?

You can also survive without eating biscuits, chocolate and cake, all of which i have seen being encouraged to binge eat on these threads - in a 'lighthearted' manner

You can, but it's much harder to restrict an essential like food.

Quite. It was such a bonkers ‘defence’ of drinking that I couldn’t even reply!