Did anybody see the Panaroma about binge drinking last night?

[Orangelight23]

Real eye opener for me. Women in their 30s being diagnosed with liver disease. I must admit I have myself been drawn into wine culture and drinking wine to relax.

It's made me have a real think about my alcohol intake to be honest.

Drinking was one of the reasons I pulled away from my own family years ago. Brother, sister both drinkers, SIL very heavy, cousins - one who had developed parkinsons all too.

The answer to everything was 'have a drink', crack open a bottle of wine and all incapable of having a relaxed conversation until they're staring into a pint or wine glass

As a former cop, we spent every night and day shift dealing with the effects of alcohol, either in the social or criminal sense.

It genuinely saddens me.

I hate what its done to them. Me, a very occasional glass of wind or half a beer then back onto soda and lime

@cookiebee I see your point but I don't think it's right to try to prevent people sharing their experience just because it doesn't agree with the narrative you're trying to set out to everyone.

It's a fact....some people will drink heavily and live to an old age and have minimal health issues. Other big drinkers will get sick and possibly die young. The healthiest of health conscious people can get cancer while people who've smoked for years might not. We are not all born equal and sometimes life isn't fair.

That's not to say that smoking or in this case drinking isn't going to increase your chances of liver issues or cancer or other health issues. The science speaks for itself and nobody is refuting that. But it's not a given. And people are allowed to talk about their own experiences and thoughts on the process.

Are you saying that they shouldn't talk about being in 'ok' health despite drinking because it might upset someone who has been very unwell from it?

Yup..
Made me think deep and hard about my lifestyle

You are completely right, but it just doesn’t add anything useful to what’s being discussed, please just leave me alone now, we’ve both made our points to each other and won’t agree.

I hate the silly overuse of the word ‘triggered’.

Just watched it. Very well presented and worrying.
Advertising targets women and huge wine glasses have been normalised, Its so easy to drink more than you realise

My experience of France (having lived there for a year) is that while the French drink wine as part of a good meal, they don't go out and get absolutely smashed on vodka on a Friday night and vomit in the streets. I certainly never saw anyone drinking with breakfast.

The glass sizes were smaller too and people tended to drink for the taste rather than to get sloshed.

Even when I went to clubs in France in my twenties, people didn't get drunk in the same way they do in the UK. There weren't deals for £1 shots or three for twos, or pay for a single get a triple.

Yeah, you know something's going wrong when you can pop to the supermarket and come home with a glass that's big enough to contain an entire bottle of wine 🙈

I do find it interesting when people won’t take HRT or eat red meat because of the ‘cancer risk’ but they’ll happily drink three glasses of wine every Friday night. From what I can understand it’s far, far worse.

@coffeesaveslives

It's just interesting that PP says they find it hard to include non-drinkers in social events - there are hundreds of things you can do that don't involve alcohol.

This is the really terrifying thing. It’s so completely all encompassing. And so hard to get away from.

I grew up in a high functioning heavy drinking family. It was all very middle class and ”nice”: wine not spirits etc and never before 5pm but my parents drank every day unless they were ill. It was all waved off with the excuse of “Continental” style, always good quality wine and with food etc but the bottom line was that certainly my dad and probably my mum too were alcoholics.

I therefore grew up with the expectation that booze would play a central role in my social life. For about 20 years of my life I didn’t do anything without alcohol - it just didn’t occur to me not to. I eschewed doing things like sport and various other fun and healthy things because they didn’t involve a pub. I subconsciously associated that with “fun”.

I am very lucky that I didn’t develop a dependency or (as far as I know) any health issues and in my early 50s I am now almost teetotal.

But if I look back at my younger life I kick myself at all the things I didn’t try/didn’t do because I preferred alcohol. It actually makes me really sad that this is just the default “fun” for so many people. So many lost opportunities.

@cookiebee it's not about agreeing it's about allowing people the freedom to speak on a public forum! If you are so upset by what people are saying you ought to leave the thread instead of trying to create an echo chamber.

Happy to leave you alone when you stop trying to tell other people how to respond to a generic topic or discussion.

Agreed @Thepeopleversuswork - my dad in particular was a heavy drinker when I was young but quit when I was about 14 after a holiday to Norway where it was so expensive he didn't bother - he then realised he didn't miss it and never touched another drop.

Previously my parents' social lives had revolved around alcohol - dinner parties, meals out, flights of wine with dinner - but when my dad stopped they suddenly discovered lots of new activities they'd never dreamed of trying before!

I asked you nicely to leave me alone

There have been quite a few people giving my old friend @cookiebee a hard time. She's just trying to warn people how easy it is to go from social drinker to liver damaged alcoholic.
It's not a demanding response. Alcohol is a legal drug. Drink even 10ml neat and you're dead. So drinks producers 'cut it' with water. A bit like heroin Neither have nutritional benefits! Now how many people would willingly eat charcoal cooked meat everyday? We know that causes some cancers. Much study is being done into UPF because our cancers are rising. The problem with alcohol is that it is ingrained into the UK culture. It's sold as fun and a right of passage.
FWIW if people want to drink that's up to them. It will either bite them on the arse or it won't. It's not just the health issues, it effects families and children. Teenagers are seeing their parents drink and they don't bother. No one wants to ape their folks. Hence the reduction in Gen Z drinkers. So what do they target? Tired, overwhelmed women. Alcohol aware my arse.
I would strongly support pictures on bottles of damaged organs and teeth. Hell would probably freeze before that happens but it might help. We tax too highly to ban alcohol but as a previous poster said it causes life changing trauma for 25% of drinkers.

@coffeesaveslives

Good for your parents. I wish I could say the same for mine!

@WendyWagon thank you so much, I appreciate you taking the time to say that and help me out of a hole. Wendywagon is one of the greats from the alcohol support threads if anyone frequents them.

Maybe one day!

It's interesting how your life changes when you stop though, I do wonder if that scares people bit.

@WendyWagon I am not here to give anyone a hard time, I'm just not sure why some people think it's ok to try and sway the discussion away from anything that detracts from their point of view.

The things you've said are relevant and true. I'm going to take a stab in the dark and assume both you and your old pal (who I won't tag) have had personal experience with alcoholism and this is why it's an emotive subject for you. I get it, there has been alcoholism in my family too and it's very damaging.

But I don't think the lectures and 'la la la la I can't hear anything other than my own point of view' attitude is especially helpful, if anything it can alienate people further.

I congratulate anyone who has managed to quit alcohol completely, it's definitely one of my vices and the sheer amount of info out there to suggest how dangerous is can be is quite concerning.

🤷‍♀️

They have a lot of drink related health problems too. It's the amount you drink not whether you eat as well, eating may make you feel less drunk, but the alcohol still goes through your liver.

This. The documentary moved from 'just 6 units a night is binge drinking and could cause liver damage' to a woman who had been drinking 3 bottle of wine a night as the example. I want to see the women dying of liver damage who actually are drinking 6 units maybe 2-3 nights a week (Well i don't actually want to see that, but you know what i mean!)

This takes the cake for the most bizarre form of feminism.

Totally agree
The pertinent point is the reasons why we drink so much and in an unhealthy way.
My feeling is we have multi generational trauma ( DV, wars, poverty) plus our British politeness leads to PA , women in particular are now burdened with overwhelming professional and personal/ caring responsibilities.
In Europe any issues are dealt with there and then, there is a much stronger sense of family and support
Alcohol is not used to deal with stress, a small glass is sipped at meal times not used to suppress feelings or mitigate stress.

Wrap it up in soft fluffy terms like wine o clock, pink gin, 🥂 time and make it fun and also you deserve it and its easy to see how excess drinking has spiralled.
Those women would be horrified to learn how damaging it is because they don't consider it a problem
The problem drinkers are seen as the homeless, nasty and aggressive and that's not them -right?

Backing away slowly from bonkers thread. Great objective discussion of the Panorama programme.

Thanks all.

I think you've hit the nail on the head @TowerBallroom.