What do you think of Australia's vaccine policy?

[rampy]

I'm born and bred Aussie. We live in WA and kids here can't go to kindy or school
without having been vaccinated. I have a couple of British friends who were so offended that they needed to vaccinate their kids they home schooled because 'well we'll just go back to the uk' but they've stayed and now need to get their kids vaccinated because they have no friends their own age and can't go to school without vaccines.

You can't apply for child related benefits if your kid isn't vaccinated either here.

Having seen NZ have just declared a whooping cough epidemic Id say I agree with WA stance I'm honest!

What on earth have you been reading?!

Do not 'pray' for me. How arrogant to suggest you would do so.
There is no deity controlling our lives, so do not presume that I want or need you to mumble platitudes into thin air. You endearments and requests, which you think may 'prevent' any of my family suffering the effects of a science-based, life-saving medicine, are pointless, unwarranted and unwanted.

@Annabmt Er, umm, polio stops wars where nothing else does https://www.bbc.com/news/articles/cn02z5kjn40o

I think the research and evidence could be better, I think it could be more impartial. I think if it was better, there wouldn't be so much scope for misinformation. The pharmaceutical industry is truly corrupt, even if many vaccines/ medicines net out as a positive.

They literally don’t, as you’ve been told several times. Some vaccines are grown in or tested using a cell line derived from foetal tissue collected 50/60 years ago.

Wait a moment. Do you really say that someone is intentionally adding "extremely harmful stuff" which for some reason includes aborted foetal tissues into the vaccines? Why would they do it?

Yes, cell lines derived from a very small number of terminations (for example literally two for one type of vaccines) are used to grow the viruses needed for vaccine creation. That's true. It doesn't mean the cells are inside the vaccines, nor does it make vaccines "extremely harmful ".
And it isn't reason fo religious exception either, the Pope confirmed there is no sin in accepting such vaccines, and many other faiths have their rulings allowing accepting those vaccines.

@annanbmt well, I'm a Christian and it's possible God warned you personally not to take the vaccines because maybe He knew that for you they could be harmful. I say this because I believe God is all knowing (I know I will get laughed at by MN for this comment) but I know some devout believers who were also warned not to take it and still other devout believers who were told to go ahead and take it, so I'm guessing it's purely an individual decision based on possible health risks. I took the first four lot of covid jabs, but became concerned after noticing so many people around me become weaker in the immune system or suffering other effects I decided no more. Prayed on having a fifth one, felt no peace, only anxiety. Which could have been me as I struggle with anxiety or could have been legitimate. I felt fine about having the flu jab though. I'm very far from being a covid denier or any conspiracy theorist , but I'm uneasy about mandates when I strongly believe in bodily autonomy and human rights. That said, I acknowledge how I have benefited from herd immunity, for which I am grateful . I thank God for the fact I've been kept safe thus far. I think the covid vaccine hasn't been around that long compared to childhood vaccines for Polio, smallpox, which have been used for decades and I have more trust and faith in.

@annanbmt

The ones that have all the extra added-in stuff. the only thing that you need in a vaccine is the weakened tissue.

You really have no idea. Ok. Taking one of the Covid vaccines as an example - www.medicines.org.uk/emc/product/15914/smpc
(Section 6.1)

All of those excipients are needed for the antigens to stay stable in the vaccine, give it something to stick to inside the liquid, enable it to be delivered into the body and for the immune system to recognise it as a foreign antigen that it needs to be responded to.

"Weakened tissue" - have you got no idea about simple biology? A tissue is a collection of cells. Vaccines do not contain "tissues". I'm not sure nursing is for you if you don't understand year 7 biology or have no concept of researching scientific principles. I also wouldn't trust you, as a nurse, to give factually correct information about illnesses, medical procedures or medications without bringing religion into it.

Do you have peer-reviewed studies for all you claim@Annabmt

Yes, I’m waiting with anticipation for this also. What a load of nonsense. I lost the will to go on after God saying not to, and that smallpox etc was never an issue because it could have been cured naturally. I would use the phrase ‘Jesus wept’ due to the absurdity of it all but I honestly think he’d just be blinking like an owl not being able to comprehend such bunk.

Seriously, no one should be a medical professional and carry on like this. Provide peer reviewed articles for all of these claims or just stop it. You can get into serious trouble in a professional environment for saying things like this that can’t be substantiated. If someone worked with me and sprouted such nonsense I’d file a complaint so they could be dealt with appropriately (and to save the patients from them frankly).

What medical research actually looks like

How some people view medical research, even if what's in the cauldron happens to be organic.

I think science should win out over personal preference, and governments have both a desire and a responsibility to keep a baseline of health amongst the population of workers, both current and future.

So then, vaccinations are off the table, but vaccinations are really very mild on the medicine / surgery spectrum as it's basically teaching your body what a certain infection might look like. It's your body that actually creates the immunity.

But if god's against that, then he's going to be incandescent when he learns about literally all medicines (apart from stuff like willow bark) and surely if god wanted you to get that broken leg plated and screwed he wouldn't have left that rollerskate / cat / marble at the top of the stairs in the first place. And then there's stuff like cancer surgery. Why are you removing something that god put there?

Medicine works. Science works. Alternative medicine that works is called medicine.

I’m definitely not laughing at your comment. Your beliefs are importantly to you.

What I do think is important to acknowledge, is your faith in vaccines like smallpox and polio, which were once brand new and used my terrified, desperate parents in their darkest hours. Watching a silent killer and paralysing disease sweep through communities, decimating lives.

Those parents were brave pioneers and we should be eternally grateful to them for their foresight and compassion for others.

Perhaps we can learn from them when it comes to trying new vaccines.

Vaccines are not for the healthy, we have them to protect the few. The vulnerable who do not have the robust health that people like myself have. The bible commands us to protect the weak, in the book of Matthew.

what on earth have you not been reading?
Aborted tissue is used in many vaccines.

Mmmmm no.

Many many vaccines are grown on fibroblast cell lines. The cells aren’t in the vaccine. Almost all vaccines need cell lines and these 2 cell lines are sterile and, just like Henrietta Lacks immortal HeLa cells, are vital parts of med tech.

I absolutely love this site (Philadelphia Children’s Hospital) as it has great lay explanations and is written in a very simple, clear format. It’s also great for vaccine nerds like myself.

www.chop.edu/vaccine-education-center/vaccine-safety/vaccine-ingredients/fetal-tissues

yes, to be pedantic then:aborted tissue is used to make many vaccines

Like a toaster is used to make toast.

There is no toaster in the toast.

It’s not about being pedantic. We need to be factual and correct when we discuss how vaccines are manufactured. Because it’s facts, not feelings.

some people object to the use of aborted tissue to make vaccines.
not quite sure about your toaster analogy as there must be very few people who have an issue with the use of toasters as opposed to say the grill?

😂😂

The pope says it’s fine.

also, aborted tissues are not used to grow the vaccines, cells derived from aborted tissues are used.

It’s more like yoghurt or sourdough starter. None of the original cell material is present, just the products of many generations of cell replication.

They aren’t harvesting cells from newly aborted foetuses, you know.

I’m in the UK and agree with the policy.

Immunisation should be compulsory except for the small number of people who need a medical exemption.

yes, I know. i used to do cell culture for a living.
I'll repeat, many people don't like the fact that aborted material is used to make vaccines ( which it is. The medium is crucial to manufacturing the substance, otherwise you have no substance)

"cells derived from aborted tissues are used."

yes, this is what many people object to.

just realised you mean that because the original tissue that was harvested was however many generations of cells ago then there is no justification for people to have a moral or religious objection?
if that's what you mean then no, people who object on those grounds will not find that any more palatable

People can object, and they can consciously abstain (even though religious leaders have consistently said there’s a moral and faith-based impetus to protect health), but they can’t then complain when they are excluded from full participation in society.

Medical exemptions are one thing - religious ones, made on the back of a belief, are something else.

Isn’t it a favourite MN line that no one should be forced to participate in anyone else’s belief system?