What do you think of Australia's vaccine policy?

[rampy]

I'm born and bred Aussie. We live in WA and kids here can't go to kindy or school
without having been vaccinated. I have a couple of British friends who were so offended that they needed to vaccinate their kids they home schooled because 'well we'll just go back to the uk' but they've stayed and now need to get their kids vaccinated because they have no friends their own age and can't go to school without vaccines.

You can't apply for child related benefits if your kid isn't vaccinated either here.

Having seen NZ have just declared a whooping cough epidemic Id say I agree with WA stance I'm honest!

So far, their kids have never caught anything that they'd have been vaccinated against

That is probably because other kids have been vaccinated so they’re benefiting from herd immunity. Which is only a thing if enough people get vaccinated in the first place…

Yes, for rubella, chicken pox and hep A vaccines. It's used as the growth medium for the virus strain. It is not contained in the final product at all.

The cells were taken originally from a foetus aborted for medical reasons in 1966.

The Vatican has made a ruling, which essentially says it deplores their use, and urges scientists to find alternatives so that human cells are not used in this way. But that it does not object to Roman Catholics receiving the jab, because it does not believe the harm that would accrue to women and children from not vaccinating is justified, not least as it would not right the wrong and would only increase human suffering.

I don't know if any other religions or denominations have issued a policy on this aspect.

no idea TBh but I can understand why a lot of people object to its use at all and don't want to have that product

But vaccinations aren’t mandatory. They are required as part of the entry conditions for certain places. Don’t want a vaccine? Ok, don’t have it, but your freedom to choose is paralleled with society’s freedom to exclude you from full participation.

Also, I’d love to see your evidence for the Covid vaccination. From what I’ve read (albeit a while ago now), despite the extraordinary numbers of people given them, the serious side effects were remarkably low. But if you have some evidence to refute this, please do share.

You personally ‘believing’ it will do you harm isn’t relevant - belief doesn’t trump science. You are free to practice your beliefs - society is free to structure itself to protect others from those beliefs.

this is all very 2020!

I'm not engaging further with someone who disregards fundamental human rights so readily.

If there was robust scientific evidence that supported either of those policies, I would likely support them myself and use my vote accordingly.

As there isn’t, and as we currently we live in a democracy, I’m not so concerned.

There is nothing naive about my stance - it is well researched (with appropriate educational background to evaluate source material). HTH.

nope, that's naiive ( and deffo no further comment to you until you form a slightly more sophisticated view of consent, human rights etc.)

I'm in the UK and wish we did this

Where did she get it from if everyone else was vaccinated??

Btw I had both whooping cough and measles as a child , - vaccinated for both. My DD1 has mmr jab when about a year. No rubella immunity in first pregnancy, another MMR after giving birth. 2 nd baby no rubella immunity, another MMR. 3 rd baby guess what - no immunity. The vaccines don't always work

Why would you get a degree to work in evidence-based medicine if you don't believe in it? Why not learn reiki or something instead?

Evidence-based medicine is not a belief system.

If your vaccine works, how exactly are you being 'put at risk' by those choosing not to have it? You're personally protected from your own vaccine, no

Yes. But there is a surprising number of immune-suppressed people as we found out during covid. For them vaccines may not work, so they really do need herd immunity. And unlike the covid vaccine, most vaccines work to prevent the illness altogether, rather than just making it milder, so people who can't have the vaccine are protected.

Neither is climate change, for example, but some people claim not to believe in that.
What I really wanted to say was 'if you don't understand it' but that doesn't sound very polite.

Who knew that covid was more likely to get you if you drank alcohol. Now that really is/was a stupid policy without any scientific foundation...

Where are you getting that nonsense from re smallpox?

Vaccination reduced prevalence and surveillance & containment was the thing that led to eradication. Of course improved sanitation and living conditions played a part, but if it was just that, then why haven’t all infectious diseases been eradicated?

There are 2 ways to mitigate infection risk for vulnerable individuals:

1. Remove vulnerable individuals from society to avoid potential infection
2. reduce prevalence of diseases in society through vaccination (and in serious outbreaks, isolate cases as a ‘firebreak’)

The former requires someone to be removed from society because of something they can’t help (being vulnerable), so the latter is preferable and adopted - but for it to work, people are asked to collectively protect each other.

Anyone is free to opt of their collective responsibility, but that comes with varying restrictions to them - could be travel restrictions (eg yellow fever, Covid at the time etc) or restrictions on shared spaces (eg restaurants during Covid, schools, nurseries) or restricted access to the benefits of society (eg tax reliefs / benefits payments).

I know you’d like to have it both ways, being both selfish in ignoring your collective responsibility AND grabbing what society has to offer at the same time, but thankfully you can’t - at least in Australia - hopefully here soon, too.

No one is denying you the right to body autonomy - your human rights are not being disregarded.

What you want is to have it both ways - engage in society when it suits you, but not hold any collective responsibility.

I’m happy not to continue engaging in someone so fundamentally selfish.

Herd immunity

https://www.mayoclinic.org/diseases-conditions/coronavirus/in-depth/herd-immunity-and-coronavirus/art-20486808#

Oh no! Whatever will I do?

This is not true.

You’re the only one who made claims about beliefs.

Concern about adjuvants does not mean the poster does not understand vaccination.

See my problem is that I am pro vaccine and I'd like everyone who can vaccinate to do so. The problem with enforcing it through social consequences is that there may be other things that are recommended which I won't take up for one reason or the other. I don't want everything recommended by science to be enforced on me.

For instance, I'm eligible for the flu jab, but I have it every other year because I got really unwell after having three on the trot, and then the fourth year I was ill too. I wouldn't want to face consequences for that. I also delayed the vaccines of one of my children because she was ill for about 6 weeks and I wanted her to be fully well before the vaccine. She had it before she started nursery but after the recommended window.

You would fall under medical exemptions.
Immigtants to the UK are required to have the TB vax and TB xrays. I bet no one is fussing about their bodily autonomy.

I think it could be a slippery slope and then before we know it, we are forced into having smear tests in case of HPV even though we know we aren't at high risk of related cervical cancer or even transmitting the disease.

I have smears because I'm at risk. If my risk was very low, partly because I wasn't sexually active, I wouldn't put myself through it without symptoms.

I am from the first generation to have the polio vaccine. The village I lived in had an outbreak before the rollout reached us and we were immunised as a matter of urgency. Possibly because the damage done by polio was visibly affecting friends and family, there were no anti- vaxxers. I was in very real danger of contracting polio as children I played and went to school with fell ill. I am eternally grateful that I was protected.
The eradication of polio has been very close for some time but seems impossible to achieve because of vaccine refusers who not only put themselves at risk ( their choice) but also those who are unable to be vaccinated for whatever reason.

HPV doesn’t have to be present for cervical cancer to arise, so really, everyone should be checked, whether or not they test positive for HPV. But financial constraints mean the NHS doesn’t check cells anymore. Don’t get me started on having to wait until 50 for mammograms…