What do you think of Australia's vaccine policy?

[rampy]

I'm born and bred Aussie. We live in WA and kids here can't go to kindy or school
without having been vaccinated. I have a couple of British friends who were so offended that they needed to vaccinate their kids they home schooled because 'well we'll just go back to the uk' but they've stayed and now need to get their kids vaccinated because they have no friends their own age and can't go to school without vaccines.

You can't apply for child related benefits if your kid isn't vaccinated either here.

Having seen NZ have just declared a whooping cough epidemic Id say I agree with WA stance I'm honest!

If vaccinated, you are protected. Yes, everyone knows that. As well as this, and because your immune system recognises it, you are much less likely to pass that disease on to someone who actually has got a good reason for not being vaccinated (such as transplant recipients, patients who are immunocompromised etc.
The more people that are vaccinated, the lower the transmission. This is what's meant by herd immunity. You're not just protecting yourself, but also the vulnerable who aren't able to be vaccinated and so are much more likely to become seriously ill.

I am pro-vaccine if they didn't add so many extra things into the vaccine, but they do. - a wee drop of heroine maybe?

Deary me.

Fairly simple - the government of the time sets rules around it. Not sure how else you expect a mandate to work? I mean, seat belts and airbags carry risks too, but they have been mandated.

I was in WA for COVID. They never made vaccination mandatory, but did make it so you couldn't buy alcohol without showing your certificate. Given the relationship of sand gropers to their beer, vaccination rates shot up...

Oh my lord, read up about herd immunity.

They aren't giving up their rights, they are choosing to participate in society.

I'm pro as long as equal research time and money is going into the effect on biological women, for all vaccines. One of my DD's rejected the Covid boosters because she suffers gyne/endocrinology wise anyway. Although I'm CV, I supported her choice.
There's been a big push for some populations to accept vaccines from China, rather than Europe. Some of these vaccines have shown to not be effective and some hazardous to health. So the technicalities need to be clear and debates, open to everyone.

I'm guessing most people see 'society' as being somewhere in between. Ultimately, we as individuals are obliged to protect ourselves and our immediate families first.

There will always be 'exceptions' but, just as there are 'some' whose vaccine will not 'take', there will be 'some' who will be injured from actually taking it.

I know a young mum with an actual diagnosed vax injury, that is now seriously impacting her daily life. Pretty sure society isn't now going to help her raise her small child...

Depends which country she is in. In the UK, society will pay for the child's schooling, and, depending on her household income, give her child benefit/ housing benefit etc, and if she can jump through the hoops, DLA/ motability car.

The vast majority are helped by vaccines and would be killed by the diseases prevented by vaccines. If you fear you will be amongst the tiny minority, supported by your anecdotes, you are free to stay at home with your children.
I come from a country where you still see polio patients walking the streets. Do we want that in the UK?

I agree with it.

Your right to ignore medical research and put your children at risk does not trump the right of immunocompromised children to receive an education in safety. It's a shame it's the poor kids of the antivaxxers that suffer.

This is why it is so important for those of us who can be vaccinated should do so - to provide herd immunity to protect cases like your child.

Yep, agreed, unless it's medically proven they can't have vaccines then they can benefit from herd immunity

Vaccines are not 100% effective, so some vaccinated people will still catch diseases and may suffer from them.

Some people cannot be vaccinated - perhaps because they are immunocompromised, or in my case, an egg allergy (which thankfully I grew out of so could catch up with the vaccines).

By ensuring that everyone who can be vaccinated, is, we protect the people who can’t be vaccinated or for whom the vaccine fails. This is the essence of herd immunity.

In addition, the more people are vaccinated, the less able diseases are to spread, as they have fewer hosts to live in. This can eventually lead to them dying out completely, such was the case with smallpox.

The surrendering of absolute and individual freedom for the betterment of collective living. Often tied to legal frameworks but can also have moral and ethical scaffolds.

It covers many behaviours that restrict individual freedom. Things like needing a licence to drive and wearing a seatbelt.

You want to drive without a licence and seatbelt? You are absolutely free to do this - on private land. As soon as you enter a shared space, you have to buckle up and produce a licence on request.

You want to refuse vaccines? That is absolutely your right - but the representatives that have been duly elected can insist that this choice is incompatible with free movement within shared spaces.

Covid vaccines were never mandatory in UK / Aus (or any democracy iirc) - everyone was free to remain unvaccinated. But to enter communal spaces like restaurants, and to cross borders, you need to vaccinate.

Crossing borders is something that already requires a restriction of rights - you need a valid ‘licence’ (passport) that is conditional on certain behaviours - eg it might restrict the time you can spend somewhere, or disallow work, or be removed from people who have done illegal things.

Yet it only seems to be vaccinations that get people incensed about their ‘freedom’.

Oh, and speech - but that’s a different topic.

And what happens when, “for the betterment of collective living”, abortions are banned or mandated; or a one child policy is implemented. Would you be so breathily naive then?

It'll be much the same help as if she had been damaged by the wild disease.
(Edited to add: but of course with no eligibilty for any compensation scheme)

That harms in far greater numbers than vaccines do. So if you want to reduce the numbers affected and needing support, then you'd go with the vaccine.

@Annabmt Still waiting to hear which "things" in vaccines you have a problem with?

I'm in the UK and was actually surprised that this wasn't the policy here.
I thought the nursery would ask for proof of vaccination when we enrolled my daughter but they didn't.

Smallpox was already on its way out by the time the vaccine was introduced, hence its success.

I know about all of the above. However, it's still about weighing up the risk/benefit of having a jab for each 'specific individual'.

Yes, people in society ARE vulnerable, so those people specifically should take any necessary precautions.
It's not up to individuals who aren't currently vulnerable to make themselves potentially vulnerable (by way of a vaccine injury) to protect those people.

As hard as it is, that's just not life.

this makes no sense at all.
What has a driving license got to do with it?
AFAIK Australia doesn't insist you can drive before you can attend school

"Yet it only seems to be vaccinations that get people incensed about their ‘freedom’."

and why do you think people get so incensed about mandatory vaccines?
It's really not difficult.
I'll give you a clue: vaccines involve injecting a substance into your body that you personally think will do your harm- in the case of covid vaccines that was borne out for unprecedented numbers of people.
Now, carry on with a little think about why that is different to having to have a driving license etc,

many people have a problem with vaccines which use fetal cell lines which originate from aborted babies.

Do they still do this?

yes of course.
The cell lines are still going and still used

chicken pox, rubella, at least one of the covid ones, rabies......