To ask if people today don’t agree with ivf?!

[Yaerry]

or am I just naive? Watched the new documentary about Jean Purdy and I’m surprised there was so much push back at the time. It’s made me wonder if one day surrogacy will be more accepted? I thought ivf was just a standard thing now that wasn’t controversial.

What's the other option you suggest? A cat, perhaps?

@Mumtobabyhavoc Oh no, not a cat or dog because then the same eejits commenting on this thread will tell you it's just an animal and you're really pathetic if you treat it like your baby.

Having had IVF I would guess that the PND tendency is related to having spent their conception years in an incredibly stressed environment, followed by a fraught pregnancy praying nothing will go wrong, then the upheaval of a baby with no space to address any of the previous trauma. I didn’t have PND but I still get teary talking about our IVF. It was a very tough time.

However, IVF children have been studied to (generally) have a better quality of life. There’s a body of work that shows that mothers of IVF and donor conceived children are more emotionally engaged and that adult IVF children have better social relationships and happiness. The studies started as researchers were worried the “stigma” of IVF would lead to unhappy kids but it’s proven the opposite.

Yet another logic fail. People don’t choose “not being able to have children”, they choose not to have children. The two are different.

The moral judgement on this thread is reserved for the infertile.
How dare the barren ones have children? There is obviously a reason they can't reproduce and they shouldn't thwart that plan.
Drug addicts, abusers, women who keep their baby in draw for 3 years - all fine to pop out kids because 'nature' allows it but let's not have the cosmos has earmarked for childlessness getting above their station eh?

And how many of these other things are funded from a system which is broken and so badly failing actual sick people ? While we have people waiting days in A&E, huge waiting lists for treatment which is impacting sickness and benefit levels, withholding of beneficial treatments because of cost, appalling mental health services and one of the worst track records for the early detection and treatment of cancer, should we really be allowing expensive IVF ?

Adoption is not expensive if adopting from within the UK.

However, I agree adoption shouldn't be assumed to be a simple alternative to ivf.

This isn’t about robbing Peter to pay Paul. A Dr replied to you previously outlining her thoughts and explained why your argument, in her opinion, is too black and white. I agree with every word she said and she said it more eloquently than I ever could, read that one back. Have a good day.

@MsCactus

Yes I am, and happy to discuss that but don't want to derail the thread. I believe life begins at fertilization - when an new and unique human life is created.

@HuckleberryBlackcurrant
How do you feel about the millions of embryos that don't implant, that are either fertilised in labs or fertilised naturally in fallopian tubes?
What about what many consider 'chemical pregnanies' that implant and are lost very soon?

@Needanewname42

Obviously think that's very sad.

That's interesting. Most of the people on this thread who are anti abortion and anti IVF are pro contraception, so I think it's just worth pointing out the inconsistencies with that. Various forms of contraception can lead to fertilised & discarded embryos

@MsCactus

I mean I like to think I'm at least logically consistent. It brings me comfort that they don't suffer nor are they conscious being so early in development, but I see all human life as having value.

I'm not anti contraception. I'm anti ending a life after conception.

Fair enough - but nearly all forms of contraception make it difficult for an embryo to implant in the womb, so even if an egg is fertilised it won't result in pregnancy.

I think the only contraception where you can be sure there's no fertilised egg is probably something like a condom. If you're against preventing a fertilised egg from implanting then you've got to be against a lot of forms of contraception too.

I don't necessarily think your position is wrong - it's good to be consistent. But most people don't even realise different contraception types can result in fertilised embryos that are prevented from implanting, so most people are inconsistent on this

@MsCactus
You're totally right and yes, for myself I find most forms of contraception unacceptable because of this possibility.

I'd be curious to know how your friend was told.

Funny how you're willing to overlook all the issues with IVF which has a pretty low success rate but won't do the same for adoption and fostering.

My family is my mum and siblings, kids don't even feature in any of our lives, but apparently according to you I have no family! If you have a long-term partner they are also your family. How myopic do you have to be to think biological kids are the only answer?!

My friend feels her parents did everything right on this issue, they told her very early, expanded on it as she got older, used books to help explain and answered questions. It’s not how she was told that is the issue.

It's very normal to want to have your own children. You are being deliberately obtuse my making out having adult relatives is the same as having your own nuclear family of partner and children. A husband and wife are not a family they are a couple.

Nobody who needs IVF overlooks the issues with IVF, they are just lesser issues than struggling through the adoption or foster process and no, just being happy with adult family members is not a viable solution to infertility.

@SerenePeach so what are you saying, I'm not sufficiently devastated enough that I'll never have my own family? Sorry to disappoint you but it's not any kind of an issue.

It's not an issue to you.

You don't get to tell other people they can't be devastated because it's not an issue.

Oh do stop being so obtuse. It's so boring.

Faux indignation. How original.

That's great for you. It really is. However, you can't deny it may not be sufficient for someone else.

I was responding to a previous post.

Curious. I wonder why she has had so much trouble. Perhaps some mental health issues?