To ask if people today don’t agree with ivf?!

[Yaerry]

or am I just naive? Watched the new documentary about Jean Purdy and I’m surprised there was so much push back at the time. It’s made me wonder if one day surrogacy will be more accepted? I thought ivf was just a standard thing now that wasn’t controversial.

They can't do that! I like to see it though, I enjoy seeing someone make a complete hypocritical bellend of themselves.

Would ban donor sperm/eggs because the child should know where it comes from. But won't ban one night stands for women where the woman never divulges who the father is or simply doesn't know. Because women's rights innit.

Believe women are coerced and pressured into donating their eggs so would ban egg donation but won't ban abortion which many women worldwide are coerced and pressured into undertaking.

Believe women should own their bodies and the things in it except when they choose what to do with their eggs and then the MN police force come out telling us all we have no right to do as we please after all.

Apparently, embryos when talking of abortion are 'just a bunch of cells' but embryos stored/frozen/etc are the life form of the future of the universe and should be treated as such.

They seem to believe IVF is scattered around like smarties on the NHS which provides much hilarity for me and a reinforcement of the belief that 99% of so called intelligent women on MN haven't got a scooby doo about what they're on about.

This is one of the saddest threads I've read on here. So horrible to hear people's "real
Opinions".

Infertility is hard and cruel and unfair. IVF is a blessing for some, for others if brings hope and at least you knew you tried everything.

Most people's objections seem to come from misinformation and ignorance.

The cost to the nhs is a red herring, many self inflicted injustices and illness cost a lot more.

Couldn’t agree more! I self funded my ivf because I’m lucky enough to have in-laws who can help financially and I felt like if they’ve offered I’ll free up my spot in the queue for someone who needs it more than I do. Absolutely should be funded, I’ve been through a fair bit in my life and struggling to have a baby was easily the worst

Yes as it’s destroying life which is the issue. Lots of my friends and family hold this view too

@Rizzla Do you feel the same about abortion. Do you believe in a woman's right to choose

No, I don’t believe we have the right to choose to end the life of an unborn baby

@Rizzla why exactly

The political agenda of the site doesn't change how appalling those real people's experiences are though, or that the law allowed women and children to be endangered and harmed. And if you look at the second link I posted , the Law Commission in the UK wants to make the UK law on surrogacy and egg donation more akin to the US system. That's not something we should sleepwalk into - and the Law Commission disregarded all the responses to their consultation which were against surrogacy, because that wasn't what they wanted to hear. They wanted to know 'do you like this type of surrogacy regulation, or that type' and didn't want to hear from people saying they didn't want surrogacy to be legal at all. That's a political agenda too.

Should mental health not be treated then?

@Rizzla

I'm not trying to pick on you. I just want you to expand your thoughts and reasoning. So often people have opinions like yours as they have been told all their life by parents/ spiritual leaders what to think and believe

Really think through why you "believe" what you do. You might find it illuminating

I started writing ✍️ saying I kind of see a difference but really your 100% right I'm splitting hairs. I've shed tears for chemicals but not embryos that didn't take.

But there must be millions of embryos that form in fallopian tubes every month that never implant, just the same as my two best quality embryos.

Nature will also discard a pregnancy that isn't right loads of pregnancies are lost in the first 3 months. Which must be heartbreaking.

Is a lab deciding an embryo isn't good enough to consider using or freezing it any different to nature?

The number of good quality or even ok quality embryos destroyed must be very low. But even my two best didn't take so lots wouldn't have taken anyway.

Sorry but this makes no sense whatsoever to me. Soul contract ?? Eh yeh

I didn't know so many people were anti-surrogacy until I read MN. I have no skin in the game at all but this is a weird argument to me. Under capitalism we rent ourselves and our body parts out every day. We sell the use of our hands, legs, voices, muscles, brains. Some body parts more than others depending on job. Why not wombs as well, if it's the woman's choice?

Unless you're against the idea that any part of us should be transactional at all in which case I'm quite sympathetic to the anarcho-communist utopia you're going for actually.

Totally agree with you.

I’m a teacher and have worked in child protection previously and every single child impacted by trauma that I’ve met has had it inflicted on them by biological parents who naturally conceived them. Unfortunately shit parenting and high fertility seem to go hand in hand in my local area!

But on here it seems like as long as they didn’t use a donor egg or sperm it’s fine to ruin the kids life. 🤔

Also once filled in a form with a Mum who referred to her tween child’s father in front of him as “some black guy I met in local night club”. How in any way would that child be more impacted by their father being a sperm donor because Mum wanted him so much? I know what I’d rather my story was!

Congrats on your DD!

I totally get your point although I was making a slightly different one, I wasn’t saying IVF should fix the underlying causes of infertility. Or that parents shouldn’t be helped until they’re fixed.

I’m just wondering what the knock-on effect is if a child is born (via IVF) by parents with issues like poor egg quality/sperm quality who otherwise wouldn’t have conceived - makes sense that the child would then inherit the same issues, as they were never resolved. If IVF then becomes more widespread (half my NCT group were IVF, thats a significant proportion of kids if it represents my borough!) are we increasing the odds of children being born who will grow up to have fertility issues? How might that affect fertility 50 years from now?

Again I’m totally for IVF don’t get me wrong. If I hadn’t been able to conceive my kids the way I did, I would absolutely have had it myself. Just curious what it means for future fertility rates. I guess time will answer my question either way!

Thank you, but yeah I have thought it through absolutely. I deeply believe that God creates all human life and it has inherent value as we are made in image of God.

And the location, age, vulnerability and
‘wantedness’ of a child doesn’t change that value. This is why I’m against abortion.

I’ve wondered about this a lot too but then we needed IVF whereas my Mum conceived me first cycle of trying and my sibling while on contraception 😂 and her Mum had her last child naturally at 44! So while I’ve inherited many good things, sadly their fertility wasn’t one of them and I have DOR and poor egg quality. I don’t think any future daughter would have that though, it seems to be a mixture of bad luck plus previous medical treatment impacting egg quality.

@Rizzla and where you brought up in a religious household.

I ask this as I was. It took me a long time to realise what I had been told my whole life didn't need to be what I believed as an adult.

I took time to educate myself.

I'm quite pro anarchist-communist utopia 😁

I think it's different because it's only women that are affected, and society still suffers inequality, both here and worldwide. (Aren't women at the point of the year we're working for free right now compared to men?) So the pressures to become a surrogate and that avenue are unique to an oppressed class.

So you want to opppress women further by stating what we can and can’t do with our wombs? I wouldn’t use a surrogate either for what it’s worth, but I wouldn’t judge someone else who wants to. Same way I wouldn’t have an abortion but if someone else wants to then it’s not my business.

That's only in the UK and even here, we have donation sites which bypass the laws.

My child is donor conceived - she’s only little but at the moment she thinks it cool and tells people all about it. Might change as she gets older but looking at all the low/no contact posts about parents on here being raised by your biological parent isn’t always something people are radiantly proud of. There are plenty of people born as a result of a ONS or other reasons why the mum is no longer with the biological father.

right now - she knows that mummy went to extraordinary lengths to bring her into the world and she loved beyond measure. She is surrounded by adults who speak positively about her identity and think it’s amazing. She is raised in matriarchal, feminist home because the patriarchy is awful.

I think a lot of the anti-DC sentiment on here often comes from research that is somewhat outdate - there have been significant changes in the way we raise our children- and the world they are raised in . She has other IVF conceived friends, friends with two mummies, friends who are estranged from the biological parent for very good reasons, friends in more traditional families, friends in blended families…. Now I know there will be rude and judgmental people out there - but hopefully we can support and educate those who are willing, and step away from those entrenched in their own limited world view . Thank god it’s not the 50s and we’re chucking women in mother and baby homes !

now I recognise that in donating you risk a family and environment that might not be as supportive as the one she is born into - and that is a tricky one - however, it does seems like families tend to choose a donor who aligns with their own values . The pre-IVF counselling (while somewhat rubbish and judgmental in my experience! ) hopefully helps to encourage positive parenting

I don’t agree with this but I can understand it and you are entitled to your opinion.

Not really, I'm just saying why it's a bit different.

Oh I agree. Anyone can have an opinion. I only ask that people really and truly think through their opinion's.

I was raised in a super religious home and country. I was hard to separate that sort of thought control from what I really thought about things.

Read and research and form your own thoughts. You might find things are not as your think