To ask if people today don’t agree with ivf?!

[Yaerry]

or am I just naive? Watched the new documentary about Jean Purdy and I’m surprised there was so much push back at the time. It’s made me wonder if one day surrogacy will be more accepted? I thought ivf was just a standard thing now that wasn’t controversial.

In the same way that I will strenuously object to the death penalty despite never having been affected by a crime that could be punished in that way, I will continue to object to surrogacy and IVF that involves donor eggs.

Are you talking about surrogacy or IVF or both?
I am pro IVF if it’s the woman’s choice for herself and her family.

Can I ask, did you pay yourself to go private? Or just not do IVF in the end?

So if you believe infertility is nature’s way of controlling the population, you must also believe that cancer is nature’s way of controlling the population. So no chemo of surgery, no insulin for diabetics…everyone should just die???

I didn’t do it. Influenced by two family members who were diagnosed with cancer and couldn’t access life prolonging meds on the NHS. Couldn’t afford to go private, but having had a lifetime of treatment for ongoing disability on the NHS I couldn’t justify passing on the cost of my desire to have children to a system that had already given me so much.

Well, me for a start.

And honestly, it’s just not that big a deal. There are many, many things we don’t get to control in life and this is one of them.

You think the idea that humans are not possessions to sell/buy/own is a hippy notion?

Yep - I know people who chose to drive to fast, or play rugby or drink themselves senseless but I didn't choose to have fertility issues. It was most certainly not a lifestyle choice. Unlike smoking and skiing.

There are lots of reasons why the nhs doesn't have the resources to provide life saving drugs despite a record amount of money spent on it and rationing ivf is probably not it..

I know a nhs data analyst who gets paid 45k (which isn't a great wage in London but is pretty good for the hours he does)and comes in at 10 am and leaves at 3 pm (supposed to be 9 to 5) and he also takes his lunch. He has 2 side hustles cos the day job is so bloody easy. He can't wfh either so he just doesn't bother.

He gets away with it because no one cares and no one has the means to manage him, his manager just covers up for him. There are lots of nhs staff like this and they cost the country millions. Anyway if a health service is managed like this, ivf is the least of its problems, you could cut it down to a & e, cancer and heart attacks and they would still run out of money. They have an insatiable appetite for money, nhs spending is well above inflation and grows every year regardless Of what government is in power.

I watched the film too

Ive been through IVF. Never ever considered it to be unethical and never gave much thought to the outrage in the 1970s

I suppose change and development of this kind is scary to most

I am talking about surrogacy and IVF that involves donor eggs. Egg donation carries serious risks plus there is next to no research on the long-term effects of the drugs, particularly for women who have no fertility issues. I think the egg donation process exploits women in much the same way that surrogacy does.

I have no issue with IVF if the woman's eggs are used or if donor sperm is used.

As a Dr I'm still not totally in agreement with nhs funded ivf,
when there's so many underfunded life threatening conditions

I've done a fair few anaesthetics for csections for surrogates (my mate was on for her gay friends and is still a huge part of the kids life) normally baby goes straight to the adoptive parents

Personally I'm in the process of fostering and will later adopt once in a stable job. I've always wanted kids in my life and there's enough unwanted kids out there that deserve a loving home

If you think IVF is wrong there’s a simple answer: don’t have it!

The amount of judgement, misinformation and ignorance on this thread is unreal. Just because you heard from a friend/saw a youtube video/read an article on the internet about something it does not make your opinions accurate or well informed.

I’ve been in the heartbreaking position of being unable to conceive naturally, but wouldn’t think of passing the cost of that on to the NHS. Why should I shut my mouth and keep it shut ? My point of view is at least as valid as anyone else’s’.

Surrogacy should be banned worldwide as it is the commodification of children.

And no, the “you don’t know what it’s like….” Argument doesn’t hold water. Just because something can be done, doesn’t mean that it should. Sometimes people can’t have children, and as sad as that is that is life. Doesn’t give them the right to exploit another person, least of all the child they’re buying, in order to fulfil that desire.

In terms of IVF, no, I don’t think that it should be available on the NHS. The NHS is A, about saving lives, not creating new ones. Added t which, the success rate of IVF is so low that at least three rounds are required to have even a remote possibility of success. Several medical treatments are not funded by the NHS or even suggested due to the low success rate, this is no different.

Also there should be an upper limit. Women go through the menopause for a reason. Once you are no longer able to conceive children naturally there is no way that this should be enabled by medical intervention. FWIW I think that men who father children into their 50’s and beyond are equally selfish, but for some reason that is biologically possible, and short of giving every 45 year old the snip is impossible to police.

What @Singleandproud said about population control. I don't agree with it either, it's just sometimes not meant to be. As for "destroying embryos", it's just a fertilised egg, it's not like the anti abortionists who reckon people are killing "babies" etc it's a collection of cells, let's keep it in perspective.
I don't understand why people have it if they already have children, seems greedy to me.

@adviceneeded1990

Totally with you! Ex Ivfer here! Got lucky on round 4 and lucky again on round 5 with my little frostie. I have thanked god every day since….19 and 21 years ago.

Edited to say all privately funded.

Sending you so much positivity and strength ❤️

This. All day long.

I would have killed myself if we'd not had ours. I literally wanted to die when I couldn't conceive - rightly or wrongly. In my younger years, I'd thought similarly to you, but you can't comprehend it unless you've been through it.

Arguably that would have been a me problem, and not the NHS's problem to solve. But I absolutely would not have gone on to have a happy and useful life.

I had private IVF btw, as didn't qualify on NHS.

Surrogacy and IVF are not comparable

But many types of IVF aren't comparable either

Using donor sperm or eggs or embryos is no different or better than surrogacy and buying (exploiting) another woman's (or man's) body and thinking morally and ethically reprehensible

A child should have a legal right to be raised by their biological parents - except in the cases of adoption - you shouldn't be allowed to go around having someone else's baby. If you can't because you are single / same sex / old / infertile then sadly that's life.

I also think the death penalty is wrong. Just as I'm entitled to articulate my opinion on that, I am also entitled to articulate my opinion that the use of donor eggs is exploitative and puts the donor health /life at risk and therefore should not be allowed. I have no issue with IVF using your own eggs.

To you it isn’t a big deal. There are many many things science has allowed us to overcome in life, this is one of them.

That’s still not an argument for medicalising the inability to conceive naturally.

I assume your IVF worked and that’s great.

But I wonder how you would have felt if it hadn’t? Because the reality is not everyone can have children, no matter what they try. And if it is making you suicidal, I really think you need psychiatric help more than you need IVF, with its far from 100% success rate.

Of course it is.

They won't be permanently fixed but they will work for a short amount of time whilst treatment is being administered. During which time a baby is produced if treatment is successful.

You are aware that lots of treatments don't "cure" an illness or fix damaged organs they just enable them to work well enough to perform their function whilst the treatment is administered.