White Saviour

[username8348]

Ed Sheeran has said that he wouldn't participate in a rerecording of Do they Know it's Christmas which was first released in the 80s to raise money for a famine in Africa.

The single and other similar endeavours have been criticised as portraying a negative view of Africa and belying a White Saviour complex.

Some critics have said that Africa is capable of dealing with its own problems and such sentiments mean it loses business and investment:

While they may generate sympathy and donations, they perpetuate damaging stereotypes that stifle Africa’s economic growth, tourism and investment, ultimately costing the continent trillions and destroying its dignity, pride and identity - Fuse ODG

Do they know it's Christmas was last rereleased to raise money for ebola. Geldof has denied the claims saying that they're bollocks and the money has achieved a lot.

Western countries give a lot of aid to African nations, is it time to stop that aid? Many countries are feeling the pinch and could plough the money into their own nations.

AIBU to believe that we should stop playing the White Saviour and as advised, let Africa deal with its own problems?

Agree, and also the contrast where the west generally (not always) has excess of food and stuff at Christmas comparison to somewhere experiencing famine. I think some people are taking the lyrics a bit too literally.

Yes, the song is dated. The lyrics are dodgy.
And Ed is certainly right, in this day & age…

However, at that time, it did open our eyes.
Bob Geldof achieved worldwide awareness.

And I do feel strange now, overindulging.
Christmas is a bit obscene, considering…

There are children being massacred now.
And we’re here, giving our kids too much!

I’m not a super-woke, protest-person at all.
Just a mum who is thinking about all of this.

I’m saying Geldof could see the same then.
Perhaps Ed could start a new movement?

Tbf I've never thought much about it but I heard Geldolf on the radio saying something along the lines of "people who are born in these unfortunate places" or something along those lines this morning and I did eye roll. I don't know why. I honestly don't really know that much about it and I'm sure everyone is acting with good intentions but some of it seems a bit outdated.

Well you clearly don’t understand how ‘aid’ works. The money is used to further business particularly defence industry interests. The majority of the aid will involve the UK building infrastructure and providing weapons etc. These will be manufactured by UK companies. For example, I say I’m giving Uganda £10 million in ‘aid’. £9m will be paid to UK companies to build roads, airports etc. This will need to be paid back with interest. Another £0.5 will be spent on UK based NGOs etc and charities, and the last £0.5will go to the Ugandan political party in charge.

The people will see fuckall but are somehow more in debt.

International aid favours the UK. This is ow our defence industry makes money. Ending aid will cost UK jobs. Do you think the UK government send ‘aid’ altruisticly? If so when there’s an actual disaster why am I as an ordinary person asked to give money to the Disasters Emergency Commitee? Surely it should come from the aid budget.

Aid is a con aimed at extracting even more money from poor countries and getting them more in to debt.

The best thing that could happen is to wipe their ‘debts’ when in reality it’s them who are most likely owed money, and let them use their money in the way they want to build their countries without interference from the ‘benevolent’ aka loan shark West. Then you won’t have to worry about being seen as ‘white saviour’.

Exactly.

The line was intended to be provocative.

To get people to look at other people's suffering.

It’s als confusing because I saw something say that if this song/money raising thing is to be done, it should be done by African artists. Right ok I get the sentiment but the whole issue is apparently that the song lyrics are patronising because not all of Africa is poor and not all Africans are the same. Yes here’s the suggestion that we should use “African” artists (and the list of suggestions which followed were all from different parts of Africa or uk or America) as though just being in anyway associated with Africa is good enough to place you in a position to do this. Seems very contradictory.

I don’t think the song should be used again - it’s been and done and people have expressed they feel it’s distasteful enough that it’s just stubborn to try to bring it back - but see no issue with a new song raising money for good causes. Plus when so many children are living in poverty here, and if people in africa have an issue with it, do a song to raise money for uk kids no?

also also, people give money because they feel sad - take away the sad images and tell people nah its not that bad, they’re just stereotypes, well then no one’s gonna give are they?

Is the issue the song and its lyrics, or is it the giving?

I imagine Ed Sheeran has never faced starvation, never sat in a refugee camp with his starving baby dying in his arms. Yes principles are great but they don't put food in anyone's belly. I'm pretty sure that the people who were dying of starvation but were fed because of Band Aid couldn't give a flying fuck about how anyone else feels. As for the rest of Africa suffering because of how Africa is portrayed well maybe they should share some of their wealth, food and water and the white saviour wouldn't be needed.

AIBU to believe that we should stop playing the White Saviour and as advised, let Africa deal with its own problems?

To answer your original question, yes, YABU to say "let Africa deal with its own problems." and you sound incredibly smug with it too.

Live Aid etc was of its time, and I think most people would agree not appropriate. Just like pictures of pretty white women playing with poor African children deservedly get bad press. But lots of AID as well as charity funds etc are providing significant support, particularly int he context of healthcare, which is a huge need - vaccines, contraception, maternity care etc are all huge problems in parts of Africa and many organisations are working on this. Similarly, the devastation caused by wars and natural disasters often require significant support.

As for "let Africa deal with its own problems". Let's not forget that a great many of Africa's problems started with Europeans coming in and taking the land, the people, the culture. Many British people don't like to think about this, but Apartheid (in South Africa), for example, may well have been created as a formalised political system in 1948 with the first Afrikaans government, but it was in place via the British since the 19th century - passbooks, restricted work and living arrangements, land grabs etc ALL happened long before Smuts and his gang took over.

In Africa, HIV and AIDS has been a huge issue. Do you all remember the huge debates about how and when HIV started? 30/40years ago, western countries watched it devastating Africa and liked to think it was an African disease. Except,we know this isn't the case - the problem was that once it got to Africa, because of things like extreme poverty and migrant labour it spread like WILDFIRE across the continent.

Also, do you have any idea how tiny the budget for AID is? It might seem like huge amounts of money, but I believe it's something like 0.5% of GDP.

ugh. I feel a bit dirty reading this thread.

I have less to say but I've quoted you because I think your post is important.

You are absolutely correct that foreign aid is a debt trap but to rub salt in the wound we also have the gall to deliver lectures on human rights whilst we fleece the countries we previously colonised. We have no shame at all. It's why China is becoming a bigger influence in Africa, the debt trap is the same but the moral superiority is absent.

On the point made by other posters about charity encouraging dependence rather than self sufficiency, the issue at the time Band Aid was made was drought which lead to famine. Giving the Ethiopians some seeds and wishing them better luck next year wasn't an option.

This.

It doesn't need to be endlessly rehashed but equally we don't need to trash work done with good intention by examining it through today's lens.

Was it better than doing nothing? If the answer to that is yes then I don't care for the over analysing everything else about it.

Agree with some of this. And I can't put my finger on what it is but something about ES is irritating as fu&k in general, I think it is smugness.

Also agree that at the time it was recorded it was massive and was a way Jo Public could do something to respond to the awful thing that was happening ... we didn't have phones we could click a few times and donate. It was more considered and meaningful. The images I saw on tv then will forever be burned into my brain

Yea the song had flaws but to have got all those artists together so quickly and get a well intended single out so quickly is a huge deal. And I say this as no fan of Geldoff.

I think what Ed Sheeran and the like are trying to get across is that you can help people without patronising them.

That's interesting. I tend to think of your example as more unintended consequences / poor planning which probably happened more in the past but absolutely should not be happening now as it's unethical. I think of white saviour complex as more the (completely incorrect and patronising) mindset that only white people/nations have the skills and ability to sort out another nations problems and the idea that if white people didn't help then a country/people is/are helpless and floundering and could never improve themselves. It's also the idea that white people know best and are more developed in all respects and there's nothing to be learnt from other cultures or countries. But I guess from what I've written, the white saviour bit in your example is the fact that speech and language therapists are sent in rather than working to develop/improve a countries own speech and language therapists. However, I guess my sticking point is whether that is from what I think of a white saviour mindset or it came from a good place without thinking through the consequences. Though I guess you could argue that perhaps it doesn't matter, the outcomes are the same. (Sorry Catza, that is a lot of waffle of me trying to sort it in my head!)

It's a song from 40 years ago, of course it's dated! For those of us who were about in 1984, this is like us back then pulling apart the message and social values of a song from 1944.

I totally agree that the lyrics are cringy. Africa is an entire continent and Ethiopia a single county within it. Clearly rain and rivers do flow in Africa (the Nile, anyone?) and there's definitely snow on Mount Kilimanjaro etc, etc. It doesn't land well today at all - it makes me squirm to hear it now - but it's of it's time and was put together with the best of intentions. People really wanted to do something - however patronising or misplaced the medium was - to help the people they were seeing on their tv screens who were literally starving to death. It's very easy 40 years on, with a 2024 sensibility, to pull it all apart ...

Personally I think that's a midway between acknowledging elements of Band Aid are problematic today without completely shitting over the idea and intention. But unfortunately nuance and context doesn't translate into social media clout.

If Africa is capable of dealing with its own problems then why doesn't it? And I say this as someone who did a charity project in the second poorest country in the world, so I have a tiny idea of what it's like to live there. The living conditions, even for volunteers, were horrific.

Regarding the song, the lyrics are clunky but they're basically saying, don't forget how lucky and comfortable you are (in general) living in the west and not having to worry about serious droughts and famines, etc.

Haha, no worries. No, of course most people will have the best intentions but it doesn't mean that the underlying assumption isn't very much "I am an educated white person with enough resources and free time to go and do some good for deprived communities because they couldn't possibly learn to do it themselves". There is something very uncomfortable about that and I think we should be able to acknowledge our own shortcomings. In my example, this thinking resulted in white people flocking to deprived parts of the world to "do good" but the good they were doing was not in collaboration with the locals. There was no acknowledgement that the local population has capacity and skills to do the work themselves and, perhaps, just needed support in developing these skills in a sustainable way. If we did examine our (subconscious!) assumptions that white people know best, we wouldn't choose this specific solution to the lack of qualified SaLTs in Vietnam.
There was an interesting exercise our uni lecturer took us through. He would ask us for a reason why we wanted to work in a caring profession. Every time someone would give a reason (cousins with ASD, mothers with ill mental health, friends disabilities etc.), he would say "go deeper. What is the reason for you thinking xyz". Several layers deep, we pretty much unanimously established that our desire to be in a caring profession stemmed from our own ego and the need for being needed. We could then start challenging our reasoning and assumptions that patients need saving and learned to think about their own strength which they can leverage in therapy to help themselves.

I agree with @pinkdelight. The song was of its time. It achieved a fair amount in terms of providing money for an emergency. Today we have DEC appeals and giving money is so much easier. This was a way everyone could donate specifically to provide aid for those affected by the famine. Today there are other methods and really it should be retired as a song.

If my baby is dying of starvation and you have food for me so I can produce milk for the baby you can patronise me as much as you like. Food or high principles? I choose food.

Oh right, those lazy patients who can't help themselves how fortunate you can show them where they are going wrong.

I actually think your lecturers attitude is a dodgy as anyone who wants to help because it makes them feel good.

Just wanted to add my husband and I both give to our favourite charities by monthly direct debit. I'm white, he's not with roots in Africa. Is his help just as bad as mine or should I let him send my donation as it will be better in some strange way?

@catza thank you, lots for me to think about.

What? I didn't suggest that aid should be cut off, or that people shouldn't fundraise. Just that it's dignified. To me that's no high principles that's just treating someone else like a fellow human being.

Having the time and money to decide on the absolute best thing to do long term is a luxury not afforded during a crisis.

If someone comes to put out a fire, there's a time for a conversation about fire safety and prevention but not for criticising someone who actually did something in an emergency.

Bob Geldof did not have the power or ability to set up functioning non corrupt governments or better agricultural drainage systems that could magically fix the lack of crops - he did something, he raised awareness and there are people who survived a famine as a result. How many of us can say the same?

I sometimes think this academic style discussion is a way people talk themselves out of ever actually doing anything. By all means have these discussions in times of plenty, the merit of gap year students etc is different, but to apply these thoughts with hindsight like this is distasteful, it's essentially saying we'll pay ourselves on the back for letting you starve.