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Share your dilemmas and get honest opinions from other Mumsnetters.

Assisted dying bill (TW assisted suicide discussion)

310 replies

Onand · 24/11/2024 13:30

I appreciate this is a divisive subject and a sensitive topic for many. Please avoid this thread if you find any discussion of suicide, death, trauma, terminal illness, cancer and faith triggering.

I’m curious to know how others are feeling about this subject, from what I can see there isn’t a lot of discussion, is this a MNHQ decision or an indifference from posters?

My opinion and views on this potential landmark decision are based on my horrifying experience of watching and waiting for my mum to pass from end stage cancer several years ago.

For over four years she fought advanced cancer, she took every treatment and trial offered to her. She endured major abdominal surgery, many blood transfusions, multiple rounds of chemo, lost her hair several times, her bones started to crumble causing excruciating back pain, severe abdominal swelling, double nephrostomy as her kidneys failed, multiple lesions on her brain that caused debilitating headaches and personality changes, her teeth and bones were decaying due to a calcium disorder, various hospital stays for infections, the list goes on.

Truly the most hideous nightmare cancer ‘journey’ anyone could ever imagine, it always felt like one step forward and two backwards and yet she carried on without much fuss or sign of fear to protect the family and herself from the true horrors of suffering.

She never wanted to die and so she never gave up or gave in- that was until the last few weeks of her life when she had no choice. The immense damage and toll cancer had done to her physical body was too much to survive any longer so the last infection she had took her consciousness and so began the final horrifying curveball that cancer has up its evil sleeve, this one is for the loved ones though, because now you have to wait and watch for the end to come. Anyone who has endured this knows exactly what I am talking about, a horror that truly brings home the meaning of hell of earth.

If the assisted dying bill was around whilst my mum was alive I know she would have never entertained an early death whilst she was still in control and able to fight, but I do know that her love for the family would have also meant she would never have wanted us to endure that final two weeks of watching and waiting for her body to shut down if it could have been avoided and she was able to specify what was to happen at the end. There was no possibility of her ever getting better or a miraculous recovery, death was very inevitable and a certainty but we still had to sit and watch, doing oral care and leaving the room as they checked for bed sores and did secretion suction. The only thing I could do to protect and help her was the make sure she was undoubtedly unaware of what was happening as she feared death and leaving us behind- the thought of her being remotely aware meant we were constantly asking the nurses for more and more sedation.

If this bill gives patients the choice to avoid the hideously evil ending of a terminal illness and the following ptsd that impacts the loved ones left behind then it is an opportunity I strongly agree with. Watching a loved one die an agonising death is soul destroying and something I hope no one has to ever endure if said loved one could choose to avoid.

How do others feel?

OP posts:
Patienceinshortsupply · 29/11/2024 14:54

Same. I am so thrilled that reason prevailed here against hysteria. Society cannot be run around those who are likely to abuse/break the law.

midgetastic · 29/11/2024 14:58

Reason? That we should let people kill themselves rather than finance decent end of life care ? You call that Reason? I call that inhumane

And anyone who thinks the safeguards are sufficient needs to look around at what happens elsewhere

Disabled , elderly , depressed - the tight fisted capitalists are coming for you next

Words · 29/11/2024 15:18

It is not a binary choice.

Indeed, the public money saved on ministering to me in my last six months of agony could be well spent on financing better palliative care for those who do, for whatever reason, want to go on to the bitter end.

I do not want my friends or family to witness that. It is a horrific and traumatic and lifelong burden - yes, THAT word, burden, to place on anyone. I disagree that this is a male/female issue also. Why would I NOT want to spare them that?

And if my decision means my family access their inheritance a few months sooner, and even save a few thousand on private nursing care that they can maybe then spend on a relaxing holiday to recuperate, then that is fine by me too.

cardibach · 29/11/2024 15:22

Womblewife · 24/11/2024 13:41

I agree with it - but I think there should be a referendum

I think this would be the absolute worst option. Look at the Brexit referendum -so many people voting with no idea what it was really about. This sort of topic needs reasoned, expert discussion to put in necessary safeguards, which it will get as part of the parliamentary process. It doesn’t need everyone to be in favour, because anyone who doesn’t like the idea just doesn’t need to have an assisted death themselves.

Words · 29/11/2024 15:27

Exactly @cardibach

bestcatlife · 29/11/2024 15:32

Agree with you @Dotjones it should be available to whoever wants it. This life is hard, for many people, particularly in this country where healthcare is a mess and the expense of living, housing crisis.. I could go on.
There are worse things than death.
I'm pleased the bill has passed. I'm not sure how this will be implemented in practice and this will probably take many years.

cardibach · 29/11/2024 15:34

midgetastic · 29/11/2024 14:58

Reason? That we should let people kill themselves rather than finance decent end of life care ? You call that Reason? I call that inhumane

And anyone who thinks the safeguards are sufficient needs to look around at what happens elsewhere

Disabled , elderly , depressed - the tight fisted capitalists are coming for you next

The last sentence is a bit hysterical. Nobody is coming for anyone.
Ikd let people decide when they had had enough of pain and sickness. Not every condition can be made pain free, however good the end of life care. I call it inhumane to force someone to suffer if they have made a rational decision they’ve had enough.

Errors · 29/11/2024 16:09

user942557 · 29/11/2024 09:52

@Errors It's implied. Several posters picked up on it.

It really wasn’t implied at all.
I get really fed up of seeing people on here putting words into other people’s mouths. It’s like there is no room for nuance.

AnnaFrith · 29/11/2024 16:48

anyolddinosaur · 24/11/2024 15:44

This has been discussed extensively on mumsnet previously and the opponents will try to talk it to death. Yes I can see why they think like that but no safeguards would ever satisfy them. It's a cruel point of view that wants to see people suffer.

Most people (73% according to yougov) support it and apparently it's higher in those who have watched a parent die recently.

I've watched a number of people die in situations where a vet would put an animal to sleep without hesitation.

I dont want to see any coercion, I do think the safeguards need to be carefully drafted. I'm eternally grateful to the doctor who asked if we wanted one cancer sufferer (who was by then incapable of expressing a view themself) to have adequate pain relief even if it would shorten their life. Nowadays some busybody opposed to assisted dying would kick up a stink and he would be more reluctant to ask.

Giving large doses of painkillers in order to relieve pain, even if it hastens death, is not 'assisted dying' and is already legal, and what should already be happening if necessary for anyone who is is dying in pain.

VioletSpeedwell · 29/11/2024 16:48

Thank you, Kim Leadbeater ♡

user942557 · 29/11/2024 16:58

I get really fed up of seeing people on here putting words into other people’s mouths.

Is that not what you're doing?

SuperfluousHen · 29/11/2024 16:59

Awful day.
Just awful. 😞

XxSideshowAuntSallyx · 29/11/2024 17:00

I agree with it. It's something I have always said if I am at the stage where I terminally ill or confined to bed unable to do anything for myself being fed by someone else, being washed by someone else, unable to talk I don't want to live.

I remember following Tony Nicklinson and his fight to end his life and my heart breaking for him. The fact he had to refuse food and starve himself to death always made me angry for him.

I also remember the young Rugby player who had been paralysed going to Dignitas as he couldn't go on living like he was.

Gloriia · 29/11/2024 17:17

SuperfluousHen · 29/11/2024 16:59

Awful day.
Just awful. 😞

Yes we can only hope the amendments etc get rejected and it doesn't go through. I believe it is only the first step on a very long road.

VioletSpeedwell · 29/11/2024 17:22

Gloriia · 29/11/2024 17:17

Yes we can only hope the amendments etc get rejected and it doesn't go through. I believe it is only the first step on a very long road.

I'm quietly confident it will go through.

It reflects public opinion.

Craftysue · 29/11/2024 17:25

I'm so relieved that the bill has passed. I'm just sorry it's taken so long to be passed. The trauma of my husband's death will never leave us

Gloriia · 29/11/2024 17:26

'I remember following Tony Nicklinson and his fight to end his life and my heart breaking for him. The fact he had to refuse food and starve himself to death always made me angry for him.I also remember the young Rugby player who had been paralysed going to Dignitas as he couldn't go on living like he was.'

But neither would've been eligible <for want of a better word> as they weren't terminally ill with only 6 months to live. Unless you are suggesting that anyone with a very poor quality of life should be candidates which is what concerns many people that this will just be the start.

XxSideshowAuntSallyx · 29/11/2024 17:28

Gloriia · 29/11/2024 17:17

Yes we can only hope the amendments etc get rejected and it doesn't go through. I believe it is only the first step on a very long road.

Try listening to some of those who are dying and know they're dying. Imagine knowing you're going to die a slow, painful death.

They just interviewed someone on BBC News and he spoke so eloquently (unlike the other woman), he has stage 4 cancer started with bowl cancer and now in his brain. It is for people like him not for someone with a disability in a care home.

Lockupyourbiscuits · 29/11/2024 17:29

Proper investment in palliative care with relief of pain and unpleasant symptoms should be available to all
Then people might not have to choose this option and maybe few will
There should be money and resources channelled into a new terminal care pathway so people are no longer so terrified of a painful horrible death that they chose to terminate their life prematurely . Self administered poison is not a pleasant peaceful death

VioletSpeedwell · 29/11/2024 17:31

Craftysue · 29/11/2024 17:25

I'm so relieved that the bill has passed. I'm just sorry it's taken so long to be passed. The trauma of my husband's death will never leave us

Nor my mother's.

Proper investment in palliative care with relief of pain and unpleasant symptoms should be available to all

It doesn't exist.

Gloriia · 29/11/2024 17:31

XxSideshowAuntSallyx · 29/11/2024 17:28

Try listening to some of those who are dying and know they're dying. Imagine knowing you're going to die a slow, painful death.

They just interviewed someone on BBC News and he spoke so eloquently (unlike the other woman), he has stage 4 cancer started with bowl cancer and now in his brain. It is for people like him not for someone with a disability in a care home.

Yes but then we just had a pp posting about a mnd sufferer and a quadriplegic so there is clearly some confusion.

ByMerryKoala · 29/11/2024 17:31

In Canada one in four people think that assisted dying should be extended to make homelessness a criteria for eligibility.

This is how elastic the overton window becomes once people are accustomed to assisted dying. The value of a life lived with any suffering is diminished to nothing

snarkygal · 29/11/2024 17:39

Hurray! Very pleased with this news.

Daleksatemyshed · 29/11/2024 17:50

Until you've seen someone you love wearing away every day you have no idea how terrible it is to watch someone have a long, painful death. I don't care about what religion says, or anyone else for that matter, if I was going to die slowly and in terrible pain I'd take the assisted dying. All the people who think palliative care gives someone are quiet, happy death are only fooling themselves, with some illnesses there are no good deaths.
@Onand I'm sorry for your loss, it sounds like a terrible time for you

Helixpoint · 29/11/2024 17:58

I’m so incredibly relieved and grateful that this has passed.

what a day.