It's a shame that Hollywood results in women ruining their looks whilst the men carry on regardless (Wicked)

[ByCoolWriter]

I've been looking at videos of the lovely Cynthia from the Wicked movie a few years ago. She looked wonderful and healthy. Now her face is all sharp angles. The same for Ariana who looks dangerously thin. I've heard many say that it's the gruelling film schedules etc but I don't see the male members looking like a lettuce leaf would fill them up.
Isn't it sad that actresses still feel this need to look a certain way whilst men don't

😮😮😮😢😢

I wonder if we’ll later find out that the duo kept on extreme dieting because they knew that they’d be promoting the film and be in the film together and wouldn’t want to be bigger than the other ? Judy Garland as famously on an Apple and cigarette diet when she filmed the Wizard of Oz and I think that this film will be remembered for extreme dieting , especially by those who won’t watch the film or play.

I'm talking about Nicole Kidmans face, not the weight related concerns.

I’m sure this has been addressed in the subsequent pages but no, she really has not. At the moment she looks as though she is anorexic. She definitely had not always looked like that.

I think the point is that the roles available to older men and women are very different.

And Nicole Kidman is a great example, actually. Shes always been naturally willowy so ticks that Hollywood requirement and she’s now plasticised her face so there are no wrinkles. The fact it looks a bit odd is less of a concern to studio bosses compared to choosing an actress who has aged naturally. As she fulfils the stereotypes for Hollywood, she still gets decent roles although I’d still argue her roles aren’t of the same type as male peers.

The reason men’s bodies are easier to attain is because society doesn’t have such ridiculous standards for men. Let’s take the dad bod for example. Perfectly ok to have a bit of a beer belly, still cast as a romantic lead and considered sexy. And that’s great.

How about a mum tum though? No actress has ever been celebrated for having a wobbly tummy. There are no magazine articles revering the “mum bod” complete with a muffin top as a sexy look. Contrast this to men and you’ll find loads of articles talking about how a dad bod is sexy.

Much more attainable healthy body ideals for men.

Even the recent trend for curvier women was unattainable for most. Very few woman manage to have big boobs, curvy bum and thighs while also maintaining a toned flat stomach and a tiny waist. To achieve that look, the majority of women need surgical help - and then go on to die because they’ve had a BBL.

I agree that there has been some movement in expectations towards men and there are more now experimenting with fillers and feeling the pressure to keep a ripped bod.

I think the point is though, if men think “aah fuck it, I’m not doing this shit” they’ll still enjoy success. Looking more wrinkled, greyer or even with a wobbly middle doesn’t affect their career. Hugh Grant, great example. Still considered very attractive despite very obviously ageing.

If a woman decides to age gracefully in the same way, society doesn’t view her in the same way. She won’t have the same career options that would be open to an equivalent male.

And the less well-known the actress is, the more this will apply. A true A-list actress is offered some grace because her name alone is such a huge pull. A La Nicole Kidman. Still doesn’t get the same opportunities as a man but not completely disregarded.

Now take a lesser known actress and actor - without the draw of a famous name, the woman will find opportunities much diminished. Not so the equivalent male actor.

Men and women are not treated equally by society, and we’re a very long way from achieving parity - and that includes women judging other women. Internalised misogyny is real, because it’s really hard to totally disregard the images and messages that society constantly bombards us all with.

We have a very long way to go, unfortunately.

Even so, it is not all the women, or even all the A list actresses that go to these kinds of lengths. Nicole Kidman is a good example, and interesting because she looks her age, and is playing roles for a woman of her age. For all the work she's had done, she does not seem to be in a better place than actresses who have retained a look that's a little more natural.

Im not sure about that, Nicole’s career is pretty strong which is often unusual for women who get older in Hollywood. Would she have got some of her current roles without the work?

“In a more general point, NK is pushing 60 and yet we're supposed to swallow the idea that at 60 it's perfectly normal to have a shiny smooth wrinkle free face. At about 10 years younger I'm incensed at the notion that any sign of female ageing is unacceptable”.

@FlugelHugel Nicole Kidman is 57 which is the same age as me and a good friend of mine who is a well known actress. She has continued to work but has always said how the roles are limited past 40 even outside planet Hollywood. She recently told me she was speaking to a well known casting director and asked her, ‘who would you cast to play me?’. She immediately reeled off the names of five actresses all of whom were 35-38 years old.

My friend has been cast as the mother or grandmother since 40 often with the actress playing her daughter being only ten years younger and the actor playing her husband a good twenty years older than she is. At 57 the roles are often to play c.70 year olds or slightly cliched versions of older women, but decent roles for women over a certain age are very thin on the ground altogether. This has not been the experience of her male contemporaries in the U.K.

I once served Sarah Michelle Gellar in a restaurant and she was so thin I could visibly see a very fine covering of hair on her face and body- lanugo. She did not eat a thing. I was only reminded of this recently when I saw pictures of Ariana. She is in the grip of an eating disorder and I just don’t see how anyone could say otherwise.

Kate Winslet is 49 and one of few highly successful actresses who is neither skinny or visibly tampered with. She looks great and must be strong to resist the pressure.

Men do have a lot of surgery but for some reason it’s only women who come under scrutiny for getting it done.

Lots of talk about NK- yes she’s still getting a lot of work but it’s the SAME work. Privileged, spoilt but ultimately ruthless woman in some sort of peril. It’s been the same for years. There’s no dimension to her roles anymore. The extent of the work she’s had done to her face has even changed her voice.

Ari has lost a lot of weight. They both look really skinny in these pics. Hollywood for you.

Plenty of 'fat' actresses as well as the -'thin' ones you describe exist naturally and are seen on tv/films. They also contain people who are traditionally 'beautiful'
But you are being disingenuous; over the history of theatre and film, plenty of male actors have been forced to thin down, muscle up, have facial sugery.
So yabu for being sexist.
Also Ariela Grande is tiny to start with, she's, like many others, naturally teeny.

Lots of talk about NK- yes she’s still getting a lot of work but it’s the SAME work. Privileged, spoilt but ultimately ruthless woman in some sort of peril. It’s been the same for years.

Its still work though, for many women all work dries up.

And let's be honest, many who post on MN are wanting weight-loss injections, diet advice and every other cheat to lose weight, so one would hope all those saying how disgusting the system is, are not themselves trying to adjust their appearance

I thought they were both equally thin. I looked at AG's legs in one scene and thought how toned they were . Filming Wicked must have been a gruelling marathon. Very sad if she is suffering from Anorexia. It must have been very hard to do such an energetic role if she is.

There is quite a big difference between wanting help to lose weight to achieve a healthy BMI and becoming emaciated. Poor Ariana has just ‘adjusted her appearance’, she’s not well.

I think that’s a very over-simplified take.

It’s perfectly possible to wish society didn’t view/judge women while also succumbing because you want to avoid being viewed as past it or plain old.

I also think there’s a very big difference in trying to lose surplus weight for health reasons compared to a goal of becoming so scrawny that you look unwell.

For my part, I wouldn’t touch Botox/fillers, nor weight loss injections. I don’t think any of them are a great idea, but I understand why some women would feel tempted.

If society judged women by men’s standards, far more women might be able to see that there’s beauty in age too.

Which is weird because I think it’s actually quite ageing?

I was really struck by the leanness of Jonathan Bailey too which made me think more about the dance routines. They must have to be very fit.

It's certainly not a recent thing.

Olive Oyl was stick thin, while Popeye consumed as many tins of spinach as he wanted.

Draw your own conclusions!

It is ageing. Ariana looks 20 years older than her actual age - 31 - in the pic I posted upthread.

Can't help but feel this thread is part of the problem. It was grim to read because whether it comes from a place of high-minded concern about a toxic industry or not, it amounts to six pages of actresses' faces and bodies being picked apart and criticised relentlessly.

You can't criticise a system in which actresses are only judged for their looks when this thread is so overwhelmingly focused on their looks as well. Barely a comment about Ariana Grande or Cynthia Erivo's acting, singing or artistic qualities. Almost as if their looks are still the most important thing to posters even on this thread, rather than their talents.

(I have no opinion on Wicked as I haven't seen it, but I've definitely enjoyed Ariana Grande's pop career - she's got a spectacular voice.)

I don’t think anyone is questioning their talents more the fact that despite being so talented the way the look is more important. I don’t know how you question that or the wider conversation about pressure on women to be thin, not age etc without commenting about how people look?

It's from a place of concern. My 10 year old loves singing. She wants to see the film. But as a responsible parent I have reservations purely due to the appearance of the actresses. I do not want my 10 year old thinking that is aspirational.