Meet the Other Phone. Flexible and made to last.

Meet the Other Phone.
Flexible and made to last.

Buy now

Please or to access all these features

AIBU?

Share your dilemmas and get honest opinions from other Mumsnetters.

To want a way to label the reasonable fear of the variety of Islam that wishes to impose Sharia law?

492 replies

Oodiks · 22/11/2024 19:40

I understand that there are different sects within Islam and that while some pose no concerns, others do. I am horrified at the type of Sharia law imposed in Iran, Saudi Arabia, and Afghanistan, which denies women human rights, but it's hard to talk about those reasonable fears without being labelled Islamophobic. It's not unreasonable to fear a religion that imposes such harsh lives on women.

OP posts:
Thread gallery
11
SugarandSpiceandAllThingsNaice · 26/11/2024 10:32

https://www.theosthinktank.co.uk/comment/2020/10/27/churches-and-the-rise-of-the-far-right

“…far–right protesters descended on Dover, with shouts and flags, singing ‘Rule Britannia’ to rally against migrants arriving on British shores. Far from a unique incident, the demonstrations in Dover attest to the rise of the far right across Europe. Both far–right protesters and far–right politicans stir up hate against Muslims and migrants. How have churches responded?It could be argued that churches have nothing to do with the far right. But for anyone who has kept an eye on the far right during the last decades, it is clear that Christianity is claimed in both its propaganda and its practice.”

The OP is an example of this bit:

“The scenario of a battle for Europe, sketched in online statements and offline speeches, revolves around what scholars have called ‘new racism’. Since the 1970s and 80s, the far right has shifted from colour–coded (‘racial’) rhetoric to culture–coded (‘religious’) rhetoric to stir up hate. In the battle scenario of the far right, the two religions are markers of inheritance and identity, but Christianity is interpreted as democratic, tolerant and respectful of human rights, while Islam is interpreted as undemocratic, intolerant and disrespectful of human rights.”

“For the far right, people are trapped by their religions. It’s not them choosing ‘their’ religion, but ‘their’ religion chosing them – and all that comes with it. The consequence is clear. Far–right terrorist Anders Behring Breivik, who killed seventy–seven people in Norway in 2011, saw himself as ‘a supporter of a monocultural Christian Europe’. In his warped worldview, the people he killed had aided and abetted the ‘Islamisation’ of Europe. But the theological trap of new racism can be found in far less extreme forms and far less explicit formats.”

Churches and the rise of the Far Right

Churches must not be neutral in the face of anti–Muslim and anti–migrant fearmongering, argue Ulrich Schmiedel and Hannah Strømmen.

https://www.theosthinktank.co.uk/comment/2020/10/27/churches-and-the-rise-of-the-far-right

SugarandSpiceandAllThingsNaice · 26/11/2024 10:34

quantumbutterfly · 26/11/2024 10:32

Is everyone who harms social cohesion using a veneer of religion on the far right?

No.

quantumbutterfly · 26/11/2024 10:35

SugarandSpiceandAllThingsNaice · 26/11/2024 10:32

https://www.theosthinktank.co.uk/comment/2020/10/27/churches-and-the-rise-of-the-far-right

“…far–right protesters descended on Dover, with shouts and flags, singing ‘Rule Britannia’ to rally against migrants arriving on British shores. Far from a unique incident, the demonstrations in Dover attest to the rise of the far right across Europe. Both far–right protesters and far–right politicans stir up hate against Muslims and migrants. How have churches responded?It could be argued that churches have nothing to do with the far right. But for anyone who has kept an eye on the far right during the last decades, it is clear that Christianity is claimed in both its propaganda and its practice.”

The OP is an example of this bit:

“The scenario of a battle for Europe, sketched in online statements and offline speeches, revolves around what scholars have called ‘new racism’. Since the 1970s and 80s, the far right has shifted from colour–coded (‘racial’) rhetoric to culture–coded (‘religious’) rhetoric to stir up hate. In the battle scenario of the far right, the two religions are markers of inheritance and identity, but Christianity is interpreted as democratic, tolerant and respectful of human rights, while Islam is interpreted as undemocratic, intolerant and disrespectful of human rights.”

“For the far right, people are trapped by their religions. It’s not them choosing ‘their’ religion, but ‘their’ religion chosing them – and all that comes with it. The consequence is clear. Far–right terrorist Anders Behring Breivik, who killed seventy–seven people in Norway in 2011, saw himself as ‘a supporter of a monocultural Christian Europe’. In his warped worldview, the people he killed had aided and abetted the ‘Islamisation’ of Europe. But the theological trap of new racism can be found in far less extreme forms and far less explicit formats.”

Is everyone who harms social cohesion using a veneer of religion on the far right?

PurpleChrayn · 26/11/2024 10:37

Fear of being labelled Islamophobic is partly to blame for my current fear of leaving the house as a visibly Jewish family. Baked into mainstream Islam is a deep-seated antisemitism that Western liberals don't seem to want to acknowledge.

username8348 · 26/11/2024 10:40

quantumbutterfly · 26/11/2024 10:35

Is everyone who harms social cohesion using a veneer of religion on the far right?

As far as I'm concerned Islamic extremism and far right extremism are similar. In fact many of the Jan 6 insurrectionists admire the Taliban and were photoshopping themselves next to the Taliban fighters on social media.

quantumbutterfly · 26/11/2024 10:41

username8348 · 26/11/2024 10:40

As far as I'm concerned Islamic extremism and far right extremism are similar. In fact many of the Jan 6 insurrectionists admire the Taliban and were photoshopping themselves next to the Taliban fighters on social media.

Edited

So you're talking about USA not UK now.

username8348 · 26/11/2024 10:42

quantumbutterfly · 26/11/2024 10:41

So you're talking about USA not UK now.

I'm talking about the rise of the far right in the West which includes both countries.

SugarandSpiceandAllThingsNaice · 26/11/2024 10:45

These are worth a read…
Reform UK: The Best Option for British Christians

”I am, of course, referring to Nigel Farage and his Reform UK party.
Farage himself was, until recently, a practicing if not particularly devout member of the Church of England, though he announced as recently as March of this year that he has stopped attending its services due to the embrace of woke ideology among its clergy. Despite that disillusionment, Farage insists that “We are a Christian country with a Christian constitution and a Christian monarch,” and “I absolutely believe in Christian values that have made this country great.”

“He has even argued that British immigration policy should favor Christians over non-Christians—a rather commonsense implication of the belief in Christian society found not only in Catholic doctrine but in the traditional beliefs of both Eastern Orthodoxy and Protestantism. That border control and prudence in allowing migration are not just permitted by but required by Christian belief has itself been demonstrated so often that I will not belabor the point.”
https://crisismagazine.com/opinion/reform-uk-the-best-option-for-british-christians

https://www.christianvoice.org.uk/index.php/nigel-farage-what-does-the-lord-say/

quantumbutterfly · 26/11/2024 10:45

PurpleChrayn · 26/11/2024 10:37

Fear of being labelled Islamophobic is partly to blame for my current fear of leaving the house as a visibly Jewish family. Baked into mainstream Islam is a deep-seated antisemitism that Western liberals don't seem to want to acknowledge.

A fact I am very aware of.

SugarandSpiceandAllThingsNaice · 26/11/2024 10:50

PurpleChrayn · 26/11/2024 10:37

Fear of being labelled Islamophobic is partly to blame for my current fear of leaving the house as a visibly Jewish family. Baked into mainstream Islam is a deep-seated antisemitism that Western liberals don't seem to want to acknowledge.

Pretty much there is a round robin of antipathy between the three religions. Unfortunately Jewish people being the minority of the three have been the ones who have lost the most and suffered the most globally at the hands of Christians and Muslims.

Auvergne63 · 26/11/2024 10:50

quantumbutterfly · 26/11/2024 10:13

That was sarcasm incidentally, (which the authorities of low wit tell me is the lowest, though I would argue that it ranks above dad jokes and slapstick, but taste is a subjective thing.)

which the authorities of low wit tell me is the lowest
In this case, Oscar Wilde was/is, unarguably, one of the most renowned authority on witticism, hence his quote on sarcasm. Nice slight dig at me, by the way.
One of my favourite quote of his ( and quite apt here imo) is "“I may not agree with you, but I will defend to the death your right to make an ass of yourself.”

Whatsinanamehey · 26/11/2024 10:51

This reply has been deleted

Message deleted by MNHQ. Here's a link to our Talk Guidelines.

quantumbutterfly · 26/11/2024 10:52

SugarandSpiceandAllThingsNaice · 26/11/2024 10:45

These are worth a read…
Reform UK: The Best Option for British Christians

”I am, of course, referring to Nigel Farage and his Reform UK party.
Farage himself was, until recently, a practicing if not particularly devout member of the Church of England, though he announced as recently as March of this year that he has stopped attending its services due to the embrace of woke ideology among its clergy. Despite that disillusionment, Farage insists that “We are a Christian country with a Christian constitution and a Christian monarch,” and “I absolutely believe in Christian values that have made this country great.”

“He has even argued that British immigration policy should favor Christians over non-Christians—a rather commonsense implication of the belief in Christian society found not only in Catholic doctrine but in the traditional beliefs of both Eastern Orthodoxy and Protestantism. That border control and prudence in allowing migration are not just permitted by but required by Christian belief has itself been demonstrated so often that I will not belabor the point.”
https://crisismagazine.com/opinion/reform-uk-the-best-option-for-british-christians

https://www.christianvoice.org.uk/index.php/nigel-farage-what-does-the-lord-say/

Sounds pretty mild. I think if I were to print what Islamists in 'western' countries say in their rhetoric it would be condemned as hate speech.

Btw, which countries would you list as western?

SugarandSpiceandAllThingsNaice · 26/11/2024 10:55

quantumbutterfly · 26/11/2024 10:52

Sounds pretty mild. I think if I were to print what Islamists in 'western' countries say in their rhetoric it would be condemned as hate speech.

Btw, which countries would you list as western?

These were not examples of incitement but examples of how Christianity is inextricably woven into the views of the far right, which is in fact the fastest growing terror threat in the U.K.

quantumbutterfly · 26/11/2024 11:00

SugarandSpiceandAllThingsNaice · 26/11/2024 10:55

These were not examples of incitement but examples of how Christianity is inextricably woven into the views of the far right, which is in fact the fastest growing terror threat in the U.K.

If you count jihadists as far right I might agree with you, violent extremists are never a useful addition to society.

AmadeustheAlpaca · 26/11/2024 11:00

No one has answered my question about what positive things Islam has done for women. It's just endless posts abut how evil Christian culture is. What has the Hitchhikers Guide to the Galaxy got to do with anything?

quantumbutterfly · 26/11/2024 11:05

AmadeustheAlpaca · 26/11/2024 11:00

No one has answered my question about what positive things Islam has done for women. It's just endless posts abut how evil Christian culture is. What has the Hitchhikers Guide to the Galaxy got to do with anything?

Man's relation to god and self destructive tendencies.

EasternStandard · 26/11/2024 11:22

southpawsofthenorth · 26/11/2024 07:58

I think you’ve @ the wrong person?
I didn’t say anything about Afghanistan.

Not the wrong person, I'm interested given your posts how you view countries with differing religious foundations

Do you think they are equitable in terms of rights for women and girls for example?

Whatsinanamehey · 26/11/2024 11:23

AmadeustheAlpaca · 26/11/2024 11:00

No one has answered my question about what positive things Islam has done for women. It's just endless posts abut how evil Christian culture is. What has the Hitchhikers Guide to the Galaxy got to do with anything?

Perhaps because it is obvious you didn't ask In good faith and you have a clear prejudice. You ended your post with waiting for the usual suspects bla bla so not exactly inviting a cordial discussion.
If you were genuinely interested you could have asked the muslim mumsnetters how they think their faith impacts them in a positive way but I don't know if they will want to interact with someone who holds so much open negativity towards Islam.

JusteanBiscuits · 26/11/2024 11:29

quantumbutterfly · 26/11/2024 10:05

Do you know many?

Have you ever been to central London and left a tube station being told you're going to hell for any number of things?

Just look at how Trump is planning to use Christianity in the US.

The 'Christians' that still abuse women at family planning centres?

SerendipityJane · 26/11/2024 11:30

You have to be a bit thick to think that Christianity - a mystery religious sect from the Middle East - is somehow "western" ...

quantumbutterfly · 26/11/2024 11:31

JusteanBiscuits · 26/11/2024 11:29

Have you ever been to central London and left a tube station being told you're going to hell for any number of things?

Just look at how Trump is planning to use Christianity in the US.

The 'Christians' that still abuse women at family planning centres?

So, no then.

quantumbutterfly · 26/11/2024 11:32

This reply has been withdrawn

This message has been withdrawn at the poster's request

EasternStandard · 26/11/2024 11:34

SerendipityJane · 26/11/2024 11:30

You have to be a bit thick to think that Christianity - a mystery religious sect from the Middle East - is somehow "western" ...

I know there's a tendency on mn for posters to call people 'thick' but this seems to be missing that many western countries do have Christianity as their foundation

quantumbutterfly · 26/11/2024 11:38

Still wondering where 'western' countries end and 'non western' countries begin. It's not democracy that's the common theme because there are 'non western' democracies. It's not culture. What is it that 'western' countries have that defines them as 'western'?