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AIBU?

Share your dilemmas and get honest opinions from other Mumsnetters.

To want a way to label the reasonable fear of the variety of Islam that wishes to impose Sharia law?

492 replies

Oodiks · 22/11/2024 19:40

I understand that there are different sects within Islam and that while some pose no concerns, others do. I am horrified at the type of Sharia law imposed in Iran, Saudi Arabia, and Afghanistan, which denies women human rights, but it's hard to talk about those reasonable fears without being labelled Islamophobic. It's not unreasonable to fear a religion that imposes such harsh lives on women.

OP posts:
Thread gallery
11
Littlemissgobby · 23/11/2024 14:09

Tabitabtab · 23/11/2024 14:08

Wait they grew out of polytheism?

This man charts Christianity then he does juadaism then he does Islam. But it seems that yes as I can see on the chart

- YouTube

Enjoy the videos and music that you love, upload original content and share it all with friends, family and the world on YouTube.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uzuYZi749CM

EvilsElsasPetSnowman · 23/11/2024 14:10

Annabella92 · 23/11/2024 13:30

What was it that justified murder then?

It didn’t justify it
HTH.

1WanderingWomble · 23/11/2024 14:17

MushMonster · 23/11/2024 11:37

I do not recognise the Last Supper in the scenes from the Paris Olympics ceremony at all. They have also said that it was not inspired on the painting or the Supper itself. Why people keep saying that they mocked Christianity is beyond me.

Because the artists involved did indeed say it was inspired by/parodying the Last Supper, before their comments were scrubbed from social media.

I could only find this link just now (because it's essentially been buried as a story) but here you go:
https://www.rvasia.org/asian-news/drag-queens-admit-paris-olympic-games-performance-parody-last-supper

Quite a lot of revision and backtracking went on around then, it's interesting to look back at now.

Drag Queens admit Paris Olympic Games performance as parody of "The Last Supper"

The artists involved in a presentation at the opening ceremony of the 2024 Olympic Games have revealed that it actually was an imitation of Leonardo da Vinci's Last Supper.

https://www.rvasia.org/asian-news/drag-queens-admit-paris-olympic-games-performance-parody-last-supper

SerendipityJane · 23/11/2024 14:18

They both can't be right. So at least one is definitely false.

Reminds of of Mark Knopflers lyric

"Two men say they're Jesus, one of them must be wrong ...."

😀

Safariquery · 23/11/2024 14:19

suburburban · 23/11/2024 08:29

Yes to some extent

However no one is being intimidated by Christianity nowadays in the UK (hopefully) in the same way

Apart from women attending clinics that are targeted by pro-life protestors. Also, it very much depends on the church. I know of one in London that is a branch of Christianity but is essentially a cult and its main aim seems to be making as much money from the congregation as possible. It’s been pretty oppressive and abusive towards some of its members. I expect the survivors of sexual abuse perpetrated and covered up the church would also beg to differ.

Religion isn’t the issue. It’s what some narcissists and abusers with power use it for that’s the problem.

SerendipityJane · 23/11/2024 14:19

Wait they grew out of polytheism?

Where do all those Catholic Saints come from ?

1WanderingWomble · 23/11/2024 14:25

SerendipityJane · 23/11/2024 14:19

Wait they grew out of polytheism?

Where do all those Catholic Saints come from ?

I don't think you understand the concept of saints if you think it's somehow polytheistic.

SerendipityJane · 23/11/2024 14:29

1WanderingWomble · 23/11/2024 14:25

I don't think you understand the concept of saints if you think it's somehow polytheistic.

I understand how Christianity was spread by missionaries equating peoples local gods with Christian saints to help "make sense" of it all.

1WanderingWomble · 23/11/2024 14:30

SerendipityJane · 23/11/2024 14:29

I understand how Christianity was spread by missionaries equating peoples local gods with Christian saints to help "make sense" of it all.

What an interesting interpretation.

SugarandSpiceandAllThingsNaice · 23/11/2024 14:39

Yes, the Abrahamic religions grew out of proto-Judaic polytheism and certain parts were lifted lock, stock and barrel from other polytheistic religions albeit rewritten slightly to make several gods/goddesses into one god changing his mind.

A good example is the myth of Noah’s ark. The original story involved one god wanting to destroy humans with a flood, but another god and goddess sabotaged the plan by warning & convincing Noah to build an ark and making the flood waters recede.

Christianity with its 3 in 1 God (Father, Son and Holy Ghost) is not as monotheistic as Islam and Judaism.

EmmaMaria · 23/11/2024 14:43

Womblingmerrily · 23/11/2024 13:33

Also tolerance and respect seriously needs to be demonstrated from Muslim believers to others who do not believe.

I'm not seeing that

Perhaps you aren't looking?

SerendipityJane · 23/11/2024 14:45

1WanderingWomble · 23/11/2024 14:30

What an interesting interpretation.

Well someone has to use this thread to plug a book, surely ? 😀

1WanderingWomble · 23/11/2024 15:12

SerendipityJane · 23/11/2024 14:45

Well someone has to use this thread to plug a book, surely ? 😀

I didn't see a book mentioned but if you have any recommendations, I'm all ears (or eyes in this case!)

SerendipityJane · 23/11/2024 15:28

1WanderingWomble · 23/11/2024 15:12

I didn't see a book mentioned but if you have any recommendations, I'm all ears (or eyes in this case!)

Our Lord, ChatGPT, decrees:

The relationship between Catholic saints and local pagan deities has been a subject of scholarly investigation. One notable work is Peter Brown's The Cult of the Saints: Its Rise and Function in Latin Christianity (1981), which examines the development of saint veneration in early Christianity. Brown discusses how the cult of saints may have absorbed certain elements from pre-existing pagan practices, though he cautions against directly equating saints with pagan gods.
Wikipedia

Additionally, Bernadette Filotas's Pagan Survivals, Superstitions and Popular Cultures in Early Medieval Pastoral Literature (2005) explores how early medieval Christian literature addressed lingering pagan customs, including the adaptation of pagan figures into Christian contexts.
Wikipedia

These studies suggest that while there was some integration of pagan elements into Christian practices, the transformation of pagan gods into Catholic saints was not a straightforward process.

Christianization of saints and feasts - Wikipedia

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Christianization_of_saints_and_feasts?utm_source=chatgpt.com

Auvergne63 · 23/11/2024 15:35

quantumbutterfly · 23/11/2024 13:39

Auvergne63 · Today 11:53
What happened when the last supper was denigrated at the Paris Olympics?
The Catholic Church and the religious right thought it denigrated the Last Supper. It doesn't mean it did.
They probably took offence because of who performed it: a drag queen, a transgender model and a naked singer made up as the Greek god of wine Dionysus, not because it was re enacted. QB(assumption)
After all, Jesus' message was about inclusion, going against social conventions of his time. He was seen as radical for his views. I think he would have approved.QB(assumption)
Why do we accept that one element of society is dangerous and violent rather than stop it?
Every single Muslim is dangerous and violent? QB(your words/assumption, not mine) Most knife crimes are committed by youths, who happen to be black. Therefore, according to your logic, every person of colour must be dangerous and violent.QB(your words/assumption, not mine) Can you see how ridiculous your argument is? QB(I can see how flimsy yours is) Don't tar everyone with the same brush, please.QB(assumption, and a lovely phrase with some racist associations - which you claim to be aware of.)

AV63 You should never assume anything as it makes you look ill informed, at best.
QB Your points were full of assumptions

I will try, for the last time. to explain what a rebuttal in a debate is.
Here it goes: When two people debate, one of them makes an argument, and the other follows with a rebuttal, which, plainly put, is the "no, you're wrong and this is why" argument.
All you have done is copy and paste my points and written the word assumption, next to it.
Two points I would also like to rebute:
Firstly, you really should read the Bible to educate yourself on how Jesus was inclusive.
https://www.openbible.info/topics/inclusion
Secondly, the idiom I used comes from the 17th century. It relates to the practice of tarring sheep to claim ownership of said sheep. If you tarred them all the same way, no one would know who they belonged to.
I also think you confused this idiom with " tarred and feathered". Two different things,
Finally, when I read the bit, to my black husband, where you accused me indirectly of being racist, he looked at me and laughed.
I am looking forward to your rebuttal of my points.

What Does the Bible Say About Inclusion?

Bible verses about Inclusion

https://www.openbible.info/topics/inclusion

Kendodd · 23/11/2024 15:37

EmmaMaria · 23/11/2024 14:43

Perhaps you aren't looking?

Really, you shouldn't have to search around for it, until you eventually find a pocket of tolerance surely?

quantumbutterfly · 23/11/2024 15:37

AV63 I will try, for the last time.....

Oh if only.

Meanwhile back to the topic,,,,,,

SerendipityJane · 23/11/2024 15:38

will try, for the last time. to explain what a rebuttal in a debate is.
Here it goes: When two people debate, one of them makes an argument, and the other follows with a rebuttal, which, plainly put, is the "no, you're wrong and this is why" argument.

No it isn't 😀

theilltemperedqueenofspacetime · 23/11/2024 15:47

You don't have to mention Islam to declare yourself strongly in favour of secularism, democracy, and equal rights for women.

SerendipityJane · 23/11/2024 15:50

Firstly, you really should read the Bible to educate yourself on how Jesus was inclusive.

The same Bible that tells us to shun menstruating women (Leviticus 15:19-30) ?

Littlemissgobby · 23/11/2024 15:52

SerendipityJane · 23/11/2024 15:50

Firstly, you really should read the Bible to educate yourself on how Jesus was inclusive.

The same Bible that tells us to shun menstruating women (Leviticus 15:19-30) ?

Old Testament versus new testament Old Testament like Leviticus was before Jesus time. I don’t class myself as religious but I know the bible

Auvergne63 · 23/11/2024 15:57

SerendipityJane · 23/11/2024 15:38

will try, for the last time. to explain what a rebuttal in a debate is.
Here it goes: When two people debate, one of them makes an argument, and the other follows with a rebuttal, which, plainly put, is the "no, you're wrong and this is why" argument.

No it isn't 😀

Then you need to contact the various dictionaries which give the definition of rebuttal as I have stated.
https://www.collinsdictionary.com/us/dictionary/english-word/rebuttal

SerendipityJane · 23/11/2024 16:02

Littlemissgobby · 23/11/2024 15:52

Old Testament versus new testament Old Testament like Leviticus was before Jesus time. I don’t class myself as religious but I know the bible

Ah, so we can ignore the old testament when we talk about "the Bible" ?

E2A: Weirdly I don't class myself as religious. But I know my Bible ....

SerendipityJane · 23/11/2024 16:03

Auvergne63 · 23/11/2024 15:57

Then you need to contact the various dictionaries which give the definition of rebuttal as I have stated.
https://www.collinsdictionary.com/us/dictionary/english-word/rebuttal

Sorry, is this the five minute argument, or the full half hour ?

Auvergne63 · 23/11/2024 16:05

quantumbutterfly · 23/11/2024 15:37

AV63 I will try, for the last time.....

Oh if only.

Meanwhile back to the topic,,,,,,

Nice deflection here! By the way, sarcasm is the lowest form of wit. Still waiting for your rebuttal. I have a long wait ahead but I live in hope.