How awful that much-loved 30-year-old son cut all contact

[soupsetpleasehelp]

I'm actually writing as I have a very, dear old friend whose DS has completely cut her off. He is in his early 30s and he grew up between his parents (in a different country so no risk that this is outing) after his dad left the mum, shared contact which is common over there. The dad has since then had numerous relationships, and was horrible towards my friend in the early days, and wouldn't provide enough economic support etc. All the main care really came from my friend.

Anyhow, she was always extremely close to her son and was (is) the most warm, loving mum (person) you could imagine. Her son was always her first priority (but I wouldn't say he was spoilt) and we, her friends, always used to meet up with him and he was super cuddly and loving with his mum. No wonder, she was always very encouraging. However, over the last few years he's gone into modelling and has had a few girlfriends, the most recent one who is from a wealthy family.

My friend's son has slowly cut contact from last Xmas until a hard cut off earlier this year. He kept bringing up old (what I would have considered normal experiences) from when he was a child, when he felt she didn't meet his needs with regards to taking him e.g. to the doctors immediately after a fall (she did the next day when he complained of more pain, he initially said it was OK) and he had a fracture. Well, I'm sure lots of parents would have been the same. She is the most far from neglectful you could imagine, a wonderful person.

My friend has taken onboard that perhaps she and her parents at times talked about her ex husband (the father) in not too rosy a terms but I don't think it was a bad case of it at all, just a few occasions (tbh we all knew how awful the father was to my friend).

I wonder at times whether he due to mental health issues is gaslighting his mum, and now that he is in the modelling world and with rich girlfriend and parents, he somehow is embarrassed about his mum (who is very overweight and lives in a small flat) and that this has created some sort of dissonance which have led him to almost create false memories of how awful she was when he was growing up.

I hate seeing my friend upset and I would like to offer to write a letter to the son (and perhaps to his girlfriend and her parents as they only have his word) as I know both my friend and remember seeing her son grow up from 0-5, then seeing them regularly almost every year until he was in his late teens/early 20s. She honestly is a natural with kids and the kindest friend.

I would like to hear from all of you out there that have been affected by this either as the person being cut off, or the person dropping contact. What would be the best way to approach this letter?

Do you see that as your role as a therapist? To support your client in treating people however they think is warranted , regardless of the actual circumstances/ context?
I find that troubling.
Maybe the rise in accessing this type of therapeutic support is also part of the problem? (Not just Tik tok).

I think Boomer men can be like that sometimes. They were head of the household, little wifey at home doing laundry, etc.

You don't get to have an opinion on my time.

OH WAIT! This is an online discussion forum! You CAN have an opinion!!!!!

You've not read my previous posts, have you? I already said I'm not writing the letter.

In which case, an adult child would be well justified in not wishing to have a relationship with a borderline abusive person. Just because it’s not “clear cut abuse” doesn’t mean it’s not shit parenting.

As I've said many times, any kind of abuse is a good reason for NC.

That amazed me, because I've never known any woman who doesn't just adore her kids. I suppose this stat must mean that a good proportion of them are faking it. 😭 I'll be more on the lookout for such subtle signs of abuse in future.

It's very unlikely you'll spot them @NoisyDenimShaker and that's not an insult to you. It goes on (like most other abuse) behind closed doors and it can take even the people being abused decades to realise that their upbringing was abnormal and has damaged them. After all, as kids, we normalise our family don't we, because it's all we know. Outsiders may rarely pick up on it when the mask slips, but emotionally abusive parents are very often held in the highest regard. Many of them would argue up and down that they were NEVER abusive, because most of them think they did no wrong.

I think ultimately most posters on here were trying to explain that you cannot know another persons childhood or life in full.

I am glad for his sake, your friend's sake and your own sake that you have seen sense and decided not to send the letter.

I understand you see your friend upset that her son wants nothing to do with her but you have fabricated the reasons why.. she is fat, she lives in a flat, he is a model, he has a rich girlfriend...

At the end of the day you were not brought up by your friend, her son was. My mother's friends think she is Mother Theresa and she is Miss Trunchbull on acid behind closed doors.

Narcissism is a trauma response in most cases. The most common cause of it being chaotic or dysfunctional homes . So yeah a child with PD is an abuse survivor in most cases.

I’m not talking about abuse. I’m talking about parents who are just shitty and add negativity only in your life. I can see why you wouldn’t want someone dragging you down.

Firstly, wow, I was spending time with my family last night and was out with friends today and was shocked to see the volume of comments.

I’m afraid I won’t be able to respond to all of them, but wanted to thank those who have provided some insightful and constructive feedback, I really appreciate it.
To those who bravely shared the abuse they had endured as children (or otherwise), I’m very sorry and hoping that you are all on a healing journey.

I also wanted to say that there is an option to select ‘See All’ messages that I’d posted – if you had done that you would have seen that I early on said I would not write a letter. And no, the friend is not me, nor am I a journalist!

I’ve also done research on the topic of estrangement as a result of the comments on here and I’m frankly shocked to see how it has sky rocketed over the last few years. Often as a result of people going to therapist who support it and influencers on social media and TikTok. I had to look up the terminology as I’d never heard about ‘flying monkey’ before. Writing letters when you want to put your thoughts across is something people actually used to do, but I won’t’ get involved as mentioned long upthread.

I have also had numerous direct messages on here from people who clearly felt they couldn’t share their views on the danger of this ‘trend’ of going NC in cases when there was no real abuse, just a case of perhaps a parent being a bit too needy or cases where children simply felt they were very different people and decided to go NC.

I feel sad that there are so many on this thread who are so adamant that there is ALWAYS abuse behind estrangement and being rather aggressive and horrible to those with opposing views. That is not kindness; that is not being open to listen to different viewpoints. It is this polarization in the younger generations/Millennials I feel is so damaging. It’s all black or white, on or off. Nothing in between, no grayscale.

To provide a quick overview of my friend’s situation for context. She’s far from perfect and she says she feels guilty over things (btw, most parents have had situations where they thought they should have tended to a cold, illness, issue etc much sooner, including bumps and bruises – we are not perfect – not all fractures are super painful btw, many are left to heal even if you do go to the doctors) but she and her son used to come and stay with us for a week at a time, and she really is the gentlest of souls. Her friends have and still entrust their babies and kids for babysitting and they all love her. I don’t think I’ve once heard her raise her voice (unlike myself 😉).

Compared to my approach to life, she has a tendency to want to talk through things in detail and discussing feelings a lot more openly than I do (we all have different coping mechanisms, I feel worse when I do talk about things). Maybe at the son’s stage in life – he is a model and personal trainer with a newish girlfriend and has moved in with her -he felt my friend was needy (but honestly it wasn’t as if she even expected monthly/bi-monthly visits). But she is NOT an abuser:

• Her ex-husband left her for an OW when they were around 27, son around 1. Shared custody but most of the heavy lifting, warm care and continuity (father didn’t always pay) was provided by my friend.

• Father was quite unreliable – now on his 6th partner since that time. Frequently signed off on long term sick leave. My friend has always held down a steady job. She is a warm and empathic person.

• My friend’s ex-husband went NC with his own dad too (so repeating pattern).

• Ex-husband never showed much interest in his son’s extra curricular or sporting activities until the son decided to switch to the sport his father had once excelled in. So they suddenly started spending time and getting much closer. Around the same time, my friend’s son (in his mid 20s) started to get ‘angry’ with his mum, always finding fault. My friend used to say it was a delayed teen rebellion but also that the behaviour was very similar to that of her ex-husband when he left (The Script as someone called it on here).

• Last year, autumn, friend’s son (aged 30) got together with the current girlfriend. He asked his mum not to tell anyone or talk about it as he wanted to be low key. Then later in the year he kept saying ‘why haven’t you bothered to speak about her, don’t you care about her/me’ which was so strange as he didn’t her to mention her before!

• Then in early December, son contacted my friend in a panic saying that his dad had gone no contact with him! Friend tried to calm him down and reassure him. Then he said all was fine with his dad.

• Last few years Xmases he’d spend Xmas Day with girlfriends but would always come for Boxing Day to see my friend and his grandfather (my friend’s elderly father). Last year, it was all planned but she didn’t hear anything on the day and sent a text asking if he was coming as food being prepared. He then said he was ill but on insta later he had spent a day with friends having a pizza party. Clearly my friend was really upset.

• She has been seeing a psychologist and was keen for son to see someone or same psychologist too so that they could work through the issues and his orthorexia and any trauma about his childhood due to parents splitting up etc. But he got really strange and started putting words in my friend’s mouth about what he thought she must have been thinking – in quite a manic manner. My friend said she initially thought ‘am I going mad, this is not what happened’, she started doubting herself but also couldn’t recognize her son. Then he went NC.

I'm so sad for my friend.

That was unnecessary and spiteful. The fact that the mother is supportive of you writing a letter is indicative of neither of you understanding boundaries.

writing to him is inappropriate, he’s set a boundary by not being in touch. His reasoning is irrelevant. Writing to his girlfriend or her parents is absolute madness and will push him further away.

you do not know what went on, you might think you do but you can’t. There’s her version, his version and the truth. Not your circus, keep out of it.

It's so horrible, isn't it? I can't bear to think of all the poor little children whose parents are nasty to them. They're only little and they don't understand. I'll never get why some parents are so awful to their kids. How could they? I don't have kids, but I could never. It really is a special kind of evil - and I include in that many things that don't reach the legal definition of abuse.

I agree about behind closed doors. And that abusers often wear a wonderful mask. For this reason, sometimes I feel a bit suspicious about those pillars of the community. I don't automatically think they wonderful - although they might be! - but I'm wary of pillars who seem to have a following, and I take a while to make up my mind about them.

Agree with all other parts of your post as well.

This thread is making me think about all the miserable children this holiday. I think I'll make a donation to the NSPCC.

It seems so reasonable to you because you have never been in a position where you have had to make that difficult decision and you seem to have little empathy for people who have
Some one has gone NC with you so you are absolutely desperate for people to validate the view that it can't possibly be your fault, but nobody here can and to be honest I think you should consider if that is genuinely the case.
Your behaviour on here makes me think otherwise.

I think that's abusive.

She wanted the son to go to her psychologist and have joint therapy so he could be told he’s wrong and she’s right…

the fact that you and your friend think a letter is in any way appropriate is quite telling tbh

No one has gone NC with me...it was my sibling with my parents. Do you mean my aunt who is suffering from DV and deep control in that relationship?

Someone upthread posted about the thoughts she was having while making her decision, and they were very illuminating for me. It was very helpful for someone to explain how it felt to make the decision, instead of calling me every name under the sun. I responded; don't know if you've seen it.

Some one has gone NC with you so you are absolutely desperate for people to validate the view that it can't possibly be your fault but nobody here can and to be honest I think you should consider if that is genuinely the case.

Equally, the exact same but reverse could be said of those on this thread who have gone NC with others, and who are therefore so triggered by the suggestion that it might not always be justified.

Pillars of the community can be the worst sometimes. The thing is you just never know. When you are abused as a child you try so hard outwardly to make the parent love you, lots of hugs, trying to please, presents, doing what you know will make them happy, all of which are taken with lots of grace whilst there are bystanders but never ever reciprocated or taken with love behind closed doors. It messes with your head but you learn quickly that these acts of love are useful to the parent when others are around and pleases them.... so you keep doing it.

You know what I give up.
My dad was great, Tick Tok made me go NC with him

As a therapist you will only ever know the side of the story of the person you are talking to and they will be aware of this. They know that the person they talk to isn’t perfect that’s not their job. You’re not supposed to ‘advise’ them like this, you’re not a life coach. You are working on their mental health and supporting them support themself. If they are taking about how toxic a family member is every session and what it’s doing to them, your job is to support them to decide what they want to do about that.

But no one's gone NC with me!!! (I don't count my aunt, who is in a prison of DV and control.)

@NoisyDenimShaker I am shocked that just wanting to live your own life is seen as selfishness or bad behaviour. It seems to be normal self esteem and self respect for my generation (80s/Xennial) to grow up, move away and start your own life. Most parents are fine with weekly telephone calls visits and emails. It's pretty normal. I think most parents are busy enjoying their more senior years without needing to be in the pockets of their own kids. Of course if they need care due to dementia or other severe infirmity the kids may need to help them arrange it and make sure the carers aren't mistreating their parents but generally living our own lives is a good thing. I certainly wouldn't change my life plans based on parental approval or society's expectations. Self respect is something you can never have too much of.

They know that the person they talk to isn’t perfect that’s not their job. You’re not supposed to ‘advise’ them like this

of course. But equally your role is not to simply validate them in whatever their perspective on a situation is. That is not necessarily going to support their mental health at all, and is not good therapy imv.

That's so, so fucking awful, pardon my French. The law needs to be MUCH tighter on the treatment of children. It should not be OK to shout at them (unless they're about to put their fingers in a socket or something), they should not be spanked, or ignored, or anything else negative.

How we would police that, I have no idea. I do wonder if safe guarders could have a chat with every child at school once a year. Careers counsellors manage to talk to all the children (I know not every year) but I think if parents knew that someone was checking up, that someone was going to ask a child how often their mummy or daddy shouts at them, what punishments they get, if they have enough to eat, if their parent ever ignores them - there could be a whole checklist - then I bet it would act as a deterrent to at least SOME parents.