Should people who don’t celebrate Christmas get to have it off work?

[Username638]

Might be a controversial topic, I’m not sure. I work in a small team and there always has to be at least two people in over Christmas. One of the people does not celebrate Christmas due to their religion. They get a week or two off earlier in the year for Eid. Now that it has come to deciding who is having what time off for Christmas, the colleague who doesn’t celebrate it has said he might go for a trip away. I find this unfair really because he has already had his celebration and his time off work. It was a given, he didn’t need to fight over holidays, he just was granted the time off (which is fine obviously, that’s not the issue. I’m just saying he has already had his celebration and now it’s ours).

I don’t think there should be any rules in place that he can’t have any time off over Xmas because I do think it would be unfair and not right. But I just would’ve hoped that he would make the decision off his own back to work Xmas eve, Xmas day and Boxing Day so that those who celebrate it can have it off. I feel like it’s common decency? I did ask what he is up to for Xmas a few weeks ago and he said nothing as he doesn’t celebrate it. But now he’s decided he might go away for the whole week of Christmas and I just find it selfish tbh.

I just think that your work needs a better process for determining all annual leave requests.

And in your example, if you had booked leave and it was agreed, then you should take it. Irrespective of the fact that someone else also wanted it.

There needs to be a fair transparent process for leave.

If it a week when everyone wants it off. Like Christmas or perhaps August Bank Holiday week. Then there needs to be a fair process to determine who works. So for example, no one is required to work Christmas two years in a row. So everyone knows they will get at least alternate years off

You might celebrate Christmas properly (church etc) but most people in the UK will be celebrating in a secular way and meeting friends and family etc He may not have kids but may want to see family who have Christmas off (including kids who are off school)

As he took annual leave, the comparisons with Eid are unfair. Do people take public transport to work? It’s a palaver with cancelled buses and increased taxi costs that everyone will want to avoid.

I would hope that the company would implement a policy like those who work Christmas will be allowed to have it off the next year.

You seem overly invested in one person’s leave.

I don't celebrate Christmas in the traditional way, however, we do normally have a family get together with a nice meal as that is the one day that everyone is off work and the children off school at the same time. I would hate to miss out because I'm not a proper Christian.

If he had it off last year then it’s fair someone else has it off this year

your manager should be making sure everyone has a turn where possible. Why not just wait for the rota and if you are working then ask that next year you don’t

regardless of religion etc it should be fair

I don’t think the OP is a proper Christian either.

We don’t celebrate Xmas (not religious, just hate it). Where we’ve been in jobs that had on call over Xmas we’ve always done it. I’m now in a job where the 24th, 25th and 26th are shutdown days so have taken the week off and we’re going away to avoid Xmas.

How do you police who celebrates Christmas or not? People who don't do it at home might still enjoy the festivities and want to take advantage of the bank and school holidays.
If you know AL is a free for all, why didn't you book it?
It's nice to be considerate, but when you've got kids and wider family sometimes you have to plan around them rather than your colleagues.
Your manager should be making sure the Xmas leave is rotated so everyone gets a turn.

My Dad used to allow people 2 weeks off for their religious holiday. If it wasn't their religious holiday then they could not book time off. This made it fair for everyone.

This was in 1980!

So if you wanted time off when it’s Eid would you get it? Or would your co worker?
That’s the crux of the matter.
One religion cannot trump another religion.
Regardless of how ‘religious’ one claims to be.

I think what it boils to is you can't judge others by your own standards. You would cancel your leave or plans for someone else to have the time for an occasion that they/you deem to be more important/valuable/meaningful. That's considerate of you but not necessary.

The same situation here. You feel your time off in this situation is more needed. Your colleague clearly doesn't. You can't do anything about that. You all put your requests in and see what the rota is.

It is very unreasonable that the rota hasn't been done yet though! For those who need to organise childcare or want to make plans with family/friends it's cutting it a bit close.

Christmas is predominantly a cultural celebration not a religious one in the UK even atheists take advantage of this. Maybe his family, friends and people he’s taking a trip with are taking their annual leave now? Maybe he’s taking advantage of certain places being quieter? Maybe his sister works and he’s taking care of his Neice’s and nephews in the school holidays? I don’t know and looks like you don’t know either.

You might as well say the colleague who went to Wales to see her dad has already had “her celebration” just like him using his annual leave for Eid. I think everyone should have equal dibs the only thing I might do is step aside for people with young children but that’s my choice.

I’ve worked Christmas’ pre children I didn’t think I’d mind as double time and I’m not religious. I would say Christmas is a depressing time of year to be at work, skeleton staff,?everyone has made such a big deal about togetherness and you are alone at work. It felt very othering/ isolating.

'White colleagues'
Wow
You do realise, as a 'health care professional' that not all Muslim people are non-white??

Our local Asda had a very diverse staff group and they could all list their principal festival(s) for priority time off but you couldn't list 2 religions unless you were a multi faith household. Seemed to work well - the Muslims all got Eid, Hindu's Diwali and Christians Christmas

This really sounds like a management problem, not a colleague problem. If you are expected to work on bank holidays there should be a turn-taking rota in place. This would then allow for discretionary swapping between colleagues.

Where I work we are all asked to summit out AL requests for Christmas by X date. The manager then decides based on who wants what and who had that time off last year.

Yes,because what this person is doing is bloody unfair and extremely selfish.

It looks like this is an issue because you work in a job where people have to work on bank holidays. Therefore there have to be different procedures for allocating leave than there are in jobs that close.

But there are still religious aspects of it to many people who wouldn’t call themselves religious, in that they may enjoy a church carol service, and trad carols on the radio, although they never go at other times except for weddings and funerals, and perhaps will enjoy their dcs’ school Nativity play, and have a little crib as part of their decorations at home.

The two different aspects of Christmas - pagan and Christian - have been bound up with each other for so long now, that for many people they are culturally indivisible.

The religious aspect is irrelevant here. The OP celebrates Christmas whereas her colleague doesn't and has already had time off for a celebration that he does celebrate. It's incredibly mean spirited of him to not cover Christmas.

There are plenty of non-religious and tenuously-religious Muslims and Jews who still celebrate and take time off for holidays. No one is asking them to prove their religiosity, so I am not sure why the OP should have to either.

Your work just needs a better process for annual leave.

It's not for one person to make individual decisions

Presumably you are a practising Christian and will be at church for midnight mass on christmas eve and for a service on christmas day. And that you will be just singing holy carols (not 'all I want for Christmas', etc), exchanging only 1 token gift?

Please don't be dismissive of broader non Christian aspects of this season. Feasting, gift giving, decorating with evergreens, yule logs etc are all ancient pre christian mid winter traditions in Northern europe & every bit as valid as the Christian celebration that happens to fall at the same time was deliberately merged into existing traditions to encourage people to convert.

YANBU.
Given that he’s not tied to school holidays, he’s already said that Christmas is “just a normal day” for him, and he knows that for other people it’s a special day - he’s being strangely petty wanting to take that time off.

And to all the people who are implying OP can’t claim to celebrate Christmas properly if she’s not religious - are you 100% sure that every single Muslim who celebrates Eid is focusing on the religious aspects of it, and not just enjoying a big party? Rightly or wrongly, many of us celebrate religious festivals without being especially religious.

I agree with you op. I used to work in a team of 4 women with school aged children and an older single man without. Every school holidays the women would all agree who would be off and work round each other to secure cover, even though we’d all want to be off at the same time and would need to secure childcare/ miss out on time with our kids to provide cover. The man would just insist on being off whenever he wanted including Easter, Christmas, May Bank Holiday. I don’t think that people with kids should have priority over those who don’t but I do think that everyone should be a team player and try to ensure a fair split of leave for everyone.